2023 carol competition - yuk

[LMcD]

It might avoid complaints of any kind if they held the competitive part off-air and just played, say, the winner and a couple of runners-up? It's all this, "Oh, it gives great pleasure for people to hear their names read out on the radio - People love competitions &c" that seems so childish.

I happened to catch a brief interview with one of the composers this morning, who was presumably thrilled to not only have his name read out but actually be asked o discuss his setting.
If I may' I'd like to echo pastoralguy's sentiments.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I’m not a choral singer but aren’t the words quite tricky to sing ? On yesterday’s Carol I couldn’t make out a single word to be honest. Isn’t the word “Police” pretty well unsingable? It’s just not a Carol is it ? - more a piece of sub-Betjemanesque whimsy.

[mopsus]

Having struggled with Harmony and Counterpoint as a music student I have nothing but admiration for ANYONE who can compose anything. Good on them for for making the effort.

I don't think the entrants have to write any harmony or counterpoint these days, do they? In recent years they have just been asked to set the words to a melody. (I've managed to avoid this year's competition so someone else will have to confirm the rules this time round.)

[LMcD]

I don't think the entrants have to write any harmony or counterpoint these days, do they? In recent years they have just been asked to set the tune to a melody. (I've managed to avoid this year's competition so someone else will have to confirm the rules this time round.)

Why not remove the human element altogether next year and have a panel of robots judge a selection of AI-generated carols?

[Pulcinella]

Why not remove the human element altogether next year and have a panel of robots judge a selection of AI-generated carols?

They may well be better!

I know the winner of a previous year's competition, whose carol has featured twice on BBC MM CDs, most recently on the one with the current edition of the magazine. In neither case did BBC MM contact him, which I think is a bit shoddy. He doesn't subscribe to BBC MM and the issues might easily have passed him by had I not spotted them. I must ask if he gets any royalties (perhaps not: you probably sign over the copyright).

[gurnemanz]

I'm glad I've reached the stage in life when I've finally realized that very little is really worth getting agitated about! I doubt whether this fleeting component of Radio 3's output will pose a threat to anybody's religious or other beliefs, but I imagine it will prove enormously encouraging to those whose entries have been chosen for broadcast and the subsequent vote.

I agree. I have no interest in the Carol Competition and have not listened so should not really comment about whether it is yuk or not. There is so much tastelessness around at this time of year that I often think 'Christmas yuk' generally. I have loved Radio 3 for well over 50 years, certainly no less now than in the past. I have always been quite selective, not tuning in more than a few hours a day. With R3's 24/7 programming and BBC Sounds replay there are plenty of options. I'm fairly eclectic in my listening (playing in the background at the moment is Julius Patzak doing Schöne Müllerin with Viennese accent). I enjoy a range of programmes, even sometimes the stuff which some call 'dumbed-down' (horrible phrase).

[french frank]

I happened to catch a brief interview with one of the composers this morning, who was presumably thrilled to not only have his name read out but actually be asked o discuss his setting.
If I may' I'd like to echo pastoralguy's sentiments.

Long gone are the days - apparently - when the emphasis, first and foremost, was on the quality of what Radio 3 broadcast.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I don't think the entrants have to write any harmony or counterpoint these days, do they? In recent years they have just been asked to set the tune to a melody. (I've managed to avoid this year's competition so someone else will have to confirm the rules this time round.)

You are right . You can just submit a melody - written , played or sung. It’s then harmonised by a professional. Given how important harmony is in music it does raise the question of who the really composer is. The harmonisations are almost invariably trite and predictable as indeed they are in most pop music these days. As for counterpoint …don’t make me laugh. It does have the benefit of making you realise what a talent John Rutter is.
They’ve just played The Midnight of Your Birth by Bob Chilcott on Essential Classics - more utterly predictable chord sequences alas. All so tonic / dominant ..makes Mendelssohn look like a revolutionary.

[Beresford]

A friend who is much more pedantic than I insists they should be called Advent carols. Christmas carols are the one you sing after Christmas, maybe for twelve days.

[Pulcinella]

A friend who is much more pedantic than I insists they should be called Advent carols. Christmas carols are the one you sing after Christmas, maybe for twelve days.

I solve the me/I dilemma (mentioned in Pedants' Paradise) by using the two constructions
A friend who is much more pedantic than I am insists (that!) they should be called....
or
A friend who is much more pedantic than me insists....

Maybe I'll cross-post on that thread, as some erudite person might explain/compare French usage, where surely Je and Moi have similar senses/uses.
They don't say 'Cest je', It is I, do they? It's C'est moi' (It's me!).

[LMcD]

I agree. I have no interest in the Carol Competition and have not listened so should not really comment about whether it is yuk or not. There is so much tastelessness around at this time of year that I often think 'Christmas yuk' generally. I have loved Radio 3 for well over 50 years, certainly no less now than in the past. I have always been quite selective, not tuning in more than a few hours a day. With R3's 24/7 programming and BBC Sounds replay there are plenty of options. I'm fairly eclectic in my listening (playing in the background at the moment is Julius Patzak doing Schöne Müllerin with Viennese accent). I enjoy a range of programmes, even sometimes the stuff which some call 'dumbed-down' (horrible phrase).

Don't worry - the 'yuk' (including the carol competition, for those who regard it as such) will pass, as it always does! Like you, I'm fairly eclectic - my most recent, decidedly non-yukky, viewing/listening experiences have included the Leonard Bernstein 'Knaben Wunderhorn', recorded the other night from BBC4, Peter Sculthorpe's 'Port Essington', which I first heard one tea-time, introduced by Natalie Wheen, Vaughan Williams's 'Job', part of which was used to start my Radio 3 days in the pre-24/7 era, and John Surman's 'Road To St |ves', which I think I first heard on Late Junction. There's always been plenty to enjoy and new works to discover and I'm sure further delightful surprises await me. What I've heard of the Carol Competition neither grabs me nor riles me . I move on.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't think the entrants have to write any harmony or counterpoint these days, do they? In recent years they have just been asked to set the tune to a melody. (I've managed to avoid this year's competition so someone else will have to confirm the rules this time round.)

And if they do harmonise their creations in any way, the rules of the competition state that these essential parts of composition will be ignored completely. It’s stupid beyond reason and imagination. A competition run by fools?

[Ein Heldenleben]

And if they do harmonise their creations in any way, the rules of the competition state that these essential parts of composition will be ignored completely. It’s stupid beyond reason and imagination. A competition run by fools?

Don’t know that. Extraordinary. Next time I do a piano exam I shall ask them to disregard all the notes other than the melody. Should nail a diploma in no time at all.

[french frank]

In their own words: "This competition will be judged solely on the melody line. It is not necessary to provide a harmonisation or accompaniment. If you do provide a harmonisation or accompaniment, these will not be assessed as part of the judging criteria."

Not only not assessed as part of the judging criteria but discarded, as they all seem to have been (re)arranged.

[Serial_Apologist]

Don’t know that. Extraordinary. Next time I do a piano exam I shall ask them to disregard all the notes other than the melody. Should nail a diploma in no time at all.

John Cage quoted Debussy on how he composed. "I take all the notes that there are. I then use the ones I want, and leave out the rest". Seems these judges treat the carol competition much the same way.