New professional orchestra

[Once Was 4]

Although the Orchestra of Opera North gives independent concerts, these are relatively few.

Anyway, it isn't God's own county - that's Lancashire (though I live in Yorkshire). Yorkshire was divided up in 1974 into North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, Humberside (now East Riding of Yorkshire), Durham, Cleveland, Lancashire and Cumbria.

This statement is not strictly speaking accurate. It is nearly 11 years since I left Opera North (although I worked there for about 4 further years - mainly as an extra for concerts or in opera stage bands). Certainly concerts accounted for about a quarter of the schedule over the working year (September to July); these were by no means all in the Leeds area - we got as far as Edinburgh, Birmingham, Nottingham and London doing concerts and there were also a few abroad (including the Strasburg and Le Mans Festivals, a tour of the South of France and a concert in Vienna which included some Messian - he was in town at the time staying in the hotel over the road but did not attend! I am not sure how we took that!!). They included schools work and accompanying local choral societies which ruffled a lot of free-lance feathers. I do not think that the situation is much different now.

Recently the ON orchestra did a live broadcast on a Saturday evening on Radio 3 which was described as the first time that the orchestra had broadcast in its own right: this is not true. I remember in my time a broadcast from Leeds Town hall including Mahler 4 conducted by Lothar Zagrozak and a couple of broadcasts on Radio 2 - one a Viennese evening from Preston Guildhall and one a concert with Stanley Black from Leeds Town Hall.

As to the new venture, it should be able to co-exist successfully; I know several players who have been booked (None of them postgraduate students) and they are certainly of high quality. But they will need to break into the bigger venues to succeed and I wonder if that would be possible on cost grounds?

And a word of warning: from what I have read the new orchestra's planning is well thought out. But there was a previous attempt which looked remarkably similar in many ways about 15 years ago. They did one concert in Leeds Town Hall with a motley collection of 'freelance professional' players: one of the horn players was a school girl who I was teaching at the time and who mortified me by dealing with some quite exposed low notes which she found difficult - by leaving them out leaving a hole under the harmony. I do not think that she was the only one either. The conductor/manager/fixer decamped abroad the next day leaving the players (some of whom had travelled some distance for the gig and its associated rehearsals) unpaid. The Leeds Town Hall box office impounded the box office takings to pay for the hire of the hall which left just about enough money to pay the internationally known soloist and nobody else.

Hopefully there will not be a repeat of this.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many thanks, Once Was 4 - the orchestra of Opera North is a fantastic ensemble. Many "English (etc) Music" enthusiasts might have some of the recordings they made under their former "concert" name the English Northern Philharmonia; as, indeed, might fans of Mr Tyrfel! Do you happen to know why the orchestra decided to drop this "alter ego"?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The players might not make a fortune,but if they make a financial go of it in some way, they will at least be free to, for example, present a wider and more interesting range of music than the arts council subsidised full time orchestras tend to. ( wishful think probably, I know).

I would so wishfully think, too, ts - and I hope they are a great success. But the programme of their first concert suggests yet another ensemble that's "playing safe" - presumably on the very understandable grounds to gather as large an audience as they can. For myself, I don't feel inspired enough to part with my £25.

[MrGongGong]

No offence ardcap

The word "professional" has variable meanings (maybe ScottyTipps could help with a definition? on second thoughts....... no thanks)

Does remind me of being in a primary school with a violinist from one of the well know London orchestras

Child: What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?
Violinist: It's a violin when I get paid to play it and a fiddle when i'm playing Irish tunes in the pub

[Once Was 4]

Many thanks, Once Was 4 - the orchestra of Opera North is a fantastic ensemble. Many "English (etc) Music" enthusiasts might have some of the recordings they made under their former "concert" name the English Northern Philharmonia; as, indeed, might fans of Mr Tyrfel! Do you happen to know why the orchestra decided to drop this "alter ego"?

In fact I was/am on most of those recordings. The name was given to the orchestra at the outset to establish the fact that it was not just a pit band. The first ever concert was in Newcastle City Hall (where we played regularly all the time that I was there) followed by another in the Royal Shakespeare Theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon. It was rather widely seen as a rather silly name: a local fixer, now deceased, claimed that it was forced onto the company as he had registered as a business name every conceivable title for an orchestra in Yorkshire and would not give any of them up. He had produced a business plan which, on first sight, looked attractive and involved two chamber orchestras playing independently in small venues and coming together a couple of times a month to play big repertoire in larger venues.

The change was being discussed in Paul Daniel's time as MD in order to identify the orchestra more closely with the company and this I think was the main reason for the change. Also, many people (including several on this forum and BBC announcers) confused the orchestra with the Northern Sinfonia; in fact the only connection is that we would occasionally work as extras with them and vice versa if schedules allowed.

[ardcarp]

The conductor/manager/fixer decamped abroad the next day leaving the players (some of whom had travelled some distance for the gig and its associated rehearsals) unpaid. The Leeds Town Hall box office impounded the box office takings to pay for the hire of the hall which left just about enough money to pay the internationally known soloist and nobody else.

...yep...that's the sort of thing that can go wrong. One way that does seem to have some mileage is to establish an Annual Festival where a lot of local help and interest can be drummed up. Festival tickets and programmes can be sold ages in advance, and the Little Piddling in the Marsh Symphony Orchestra (playing in the nearly free LPITM Parish Church) can be formed. The expensive orchestral concerts can then be subsidised by the concerts which actually make some money...e.g. the Choral ones! Just possibly the LPITMSO might go on to have a life of its own. Maybe.

PS Mention of The Northern Sinfonia brings to mind the name of Neville Dilkes. Anyone remember him?

[ahinton]

...yep...that's the sort of thing that can go wrong. One way that does seem to have some mileage is to establish an Annual Festival where a lot of local help and interest can be drummed up. Festival tickets and programmes can be sold ages in advance, and the Little Piddling in the Marsh Symphony Orchestra (playing in the nearly free LPITM Parish Church) can be formed. The expensive orchestral concerts can then be subsidised by the concerts which actually make some money...e.g. the Choral ones! Just possibly the LPITMSO might go on to have a life of its own. Maybe.

It'd need to shorten its name if it'd be likely to do that.

Speaking of names, in the meantime, given that the orchestra under discussion here is based in what was described upthread as "God's own county" (has He actually bought it, lock, stock and disused coalmines? or is He a major shareholder therein? or what?), it might think to rename itself the New York Philharmonic, but it probably wouldn't be able to afford the inevitable lawsuits...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thank you, Once Was 4.

(Always liked the "Northern Philharmonia" title, messel'n! - it was the unnecessary added "English" bit that might have caused the identity crises.)

[MrGongGong]

it might think to rename itself the New York Philharmonic, but it probably wouldn't be able to afford the inevitable lawsuits...

Other Yorks are available




I know someone from here who does play in the LSO (that's the Lincoln Symphony Orchestra )

[ahinton]

Other Yorks are available




I know someone from here who does play in the LSO (that's the Lincoln Symphony Orchestra )

Is their resident venue the Lincoln Center I mean Centre (please cvan we have a strikethrough facility here, FF?), by chance?

[Stanfordian]

I'm probably just in a glass half full mood, Stan.

attendances at attractive looking concerts with class orchestras and decent ticket prices are too often very poor. The Petrenko Mahler 10 at the RFH was a good case in point. And Mahler is supposed to be big box office.

I think performers and promoters who are outside the circle of those who get serious arts council funding probably need very radical and creative approaches to how they operate.
but there are reasons to be optimistic. there is a strong supply of excellent performers, and lots of music that needs exposure.

Hiya teamsaint,
Good points about the excellent performers and the much music that needs exposure. But it's actual audiance numbers that worry me.

[ardcarp]

Little Piddling in the Marsh Symphony Orchestra

It'd need to shorten its name

LSO?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

LSO?

You appear to have extracted the Piddling.

You mentioned Neville Dilkes earlier, ardy - I know him only from some mid-price HMV "Greensleeves" LPs of English Music I bought in the late '70s - most notably the Moeran Symphony - but with the English Sinfonia, not the Northerners.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Is their resident venue the Lincoln Center I mean Centre (please cvan we have a strikethrough facility here, FF?), by chance?