New professional orchestra

[subcontrabass]

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/general-news/new-yorkshire-orchestra-puts-an-end-to-sixty-years-of-silence-1-7310526

[DracoM]

Excellent news!

[MrGongGong]

Very good news indeed
I wonder what the folks in this orchestra

http://www.operanorth.co.uk/about/orchestra-of-opera-north

make of this though?

God’s Own Country finally has a professional orchestra again.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Very good news indeed
I wonder what the folks in this orchestra

http://www.operanorth.co.uk/about/orchestra-of-opera-north

make of this though?

Although the Orchestra of Opera North gives independent concerts, these are relatively few.

Anyway, it isn't God's own county - that's Lancashire (though I live in Yorkshire). Yorkshire was divided up in 1974 into North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, Humberside (now East Riding of Yorkshire), Durham, Cleveland, Lancashire and Cumbria.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very good news indeed
I wonder what the folks in this orchestra

http://www.operanorth.co.uk/about/orchestra-of-opera-north

make of this though?

Yes - I wondered that; along with the Skipton Camerata, which has described itself in its own publicity as a "professional orchestra" - and certainly charges professional prices for its concerts!

Perhaps "a professional Symphony orchestra which only gives orchestral concerts" was a bit long for the sub-headline?

[MrGongGong]

Anyway, it isn't God's own county - that's Lancashire (though I live in Yorkshire). Yorkshire was divided up in 1974 into North Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire, Humberside (now East Riding of Yorkshire), Durham, Cleveland, Lancashire and Cumbria.

Erm

As the ex "South Humberside Composer in Residence" I can assure you that a large part of that ex-county isn't part of Yorkshire at all.

Humberside used to have fine music education.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Erm

As the ex "South Humberside Composer in Residence" I can assure you that a large part of that ex-county isn't part of Yorkshire at all.

Humberside used to have fine music education.

I know that. But the part of Humberside that had been part of Yorkshire became the East Riding in 1996.

[Barbirollians]

They should get Alan Bennett to be a patron - he bemoaned the loss of the YSO in the radio documentary.

[ardcarp]

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/...ence-1-7310526

That is indeed good news. Without wishing to put any sort of damper on it, there is a semantic nuance to the word 'professional' as applied to orchestras. An orchestra can be full of professional players, booked or 'fixed' on an ad hoc basis for a concert or series of concerts. That is not the same as one of the hard core orchestras (BBCSO, Vienna Phil, etc, etc) which offer full-time salaried posts.

This might be of interest:

http://dreamingrealist.co.uk/2007/11/05/orchestral-salaries-in-the-uk/

[Tony Halstead]

That is indeed good news. Without wishing to put any sort of damper on it, there is a semantic nuance to the word 'professional' as applied to orchestras. An orchestra can be full of professional players, booked or 'fixed' on an ad hoc basis for a concert or series of concerts. That is not the same as one of the hard core orchestras (BBCSO, Vienna Phil, etc, etc) which offer full-time salaried posts.

This might be of interest:

http://dreamingrealist.co.uk/2007/11...ies-in-the-uk/

Hmmm... even the Yorkshire Post refers to the new orchestra as "a bunch of post-grad students".
How professional is that?
They are apparently going to be paid out of the box office proceeds. Let's look at the arithmetic: if they sell e.g. 150 tickets at £25 that's £3750; less the hire of the hall (£500? £1000? average say £750, that leaves £3000.
Less the conductor's fee ( £500?) leaving £2500 divided between 50 players = £50 per player.
That's less than the M.U. minimum fee.
I wonder what the M.U. thinks about the Yorkshire Philharmonic - which in its publicity blurb states that it "hopes to replicate the success of the original Yorkshire Symphony Orchestra" ... - and I also wonder whether my friends hornspieler and Once Was 4 might wish to comment?

[teamsaint]

The players might not make a fortune,but if they make a financial go of it in some way, they will at least be free to, for example, present a wider and more interesting range of music than the arts council subsidised full time orchestras tend to. ( wishful think probably, I know).

There are plenty of people out there playing music ( af all types)professionally, who don't get MU minimum, I would think, especially with expenses taken into account. Classical musicians playing on cruise ships for example.

[Stanfordian]

The players might not make a fortune,but if they make a financial go of it in some way, they will at least be free to, for example, present a wider and more interesting range of music than the arts council subsidised full time orchestras tend to. ( wishful think probably, I know).

There are plenty of people out there playing music ( af all types)professionally, who don't get MU minimum, I would think, especially with expenses taken into account. Classical musicians playing on cruise ships for example.

I truly hope the new orchestra is successful but sadly I doubt it will succeed. The Lancashire Sinfonietta a 'professional orchestra' was disbanded in the last couple of years when I believe the Arts Council and Local Authorities pulled the plug. If it is run on a strictly professional basis i.e. paying players full rate fees etc. I cannot see how it will make money and obtain large enough audiences to make it pay. For its current series of Nielsen concerts the BBC Philharmonic at the Bridgewater Hall that is only around 2/5ths full.

[teamsaint]

I truly hope the new orchestra is successful but sadly I doubt it will succeed. The Lancashire Sinfonietta a 'professional orchestra' was disbanded in the last couple of years when I believe the Arts Council and Local Authorities pulled the plug. If it is run on a strictly professional basis i.e. paying players full rate fees etc. I cannot see how it will make money and obtain large enough audiences to make it pay. For its current series of Nielsen concerts the BBC Philharmonic at the Bridgewater Hall that is only around 2/5ths full.

I'm probably just in a glass half full mood, Stan.

attendances at attractive looking concerts with class orchestras and decent ticket prices are too often very poor. The Petrenko Mahler 10 at the RFH was a good case in point. And Mahler is supposed to be big box office.

I think performers and promoters who are outside the circle of those who get serious arts council funding probably need very radical and creative approaches to how they operate.
but there are reasons to be optimistic. there is a strong supply of excellent performers, and lots of music that needs exposure.

[MrGongGong]

That is not the same as one of the hard core orchestras (BBCSO, Vienna Phil, etc, etc) which offer full-time salaried posts.

I always thought the Philharmonia was a "hard core" orchestra myself
Most orchestral players are freelance
Having a salaried post isn't really a measure of ability to play or even to be a coherent ensemble

[ardcarp]

I wasn't trying, in post #9, to compare the ability of the players. BTW the main provincial orchestras plus the BBC orchestras, as I understand it, use salaried players. I know the London orchestras are organised a bit differently, but self-employed or not, the players in for instance the LSO are a regular crowd! I was trying to point out the difficulties of founding and running a 'professional' orchestra from what might be called a 'business' or at least a sustainable point of view. As Tony points out so wisely, it is extremely difficult to make the finances stack up, even with an orchestra of semi-pros who are willing to give their services at cut-price! Sponsorship and grants (plus someone working flat out to get them) seem a regrettable necessity.

But good luck to the new venture!