Announcements and back-announcements

[Pulcinella]

Black, no sugar please, James

Wot?
Not rainbow, like the Clifton canopy?
(I wasn't sure which thread this might be worth posting on, assuming it's not considered too political, but you've given me an opportunity!)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/bristol-rainbow-canopy-council-lgbtq-b2449253.html

[MickyD]

I too have been dissatisfied with some announcements. Certainly the content and style has changed with what seems to me a change in R3's emphasis.

Fifty years ago a good deal of airtime was devoted to playing commercial records, both new releases and classic recordings of the past, often of entire works, complete operas, etc. As late as 1998 I heard a new Cd set of Cosi fan Tutte complete on a Thiursday afternoon. Today the aim seem to be to reflect today's music-making around the world, with the bulk of airtime given to live concerts , recent festivals, and extracts from recent CDs by specific artists. In other words, the purpose is to show what musicians today are doing rather than put the music first. But this is being presented in a way akin to pop music. Instead of announcing symphony in c by such a composer, and telling us somethig about its history and structure, it's 'here's a track from their latest album, and it's part of a symphony by xxx', or 'here's Murray Perahia's take on xxx'.

It would be easy to have a well-informed music graduate with a good microphone voice telling us what is played and by whom, and they'd probably be willing to do that for a modest salary. But the BBC seem to prefer star newsreaders and gardeners who know nothing aboiut classical music, giggling amongst themelves and half the time getting it wrong. It's a sign of the times, I'm afraid. TV 'documentaries', instead of giving us the facts clearly, have to have a comedian tripping over things. I can't see it getting better in my lifetime.

Neither can I! I remember way back in the 1980s Radio 3 advertising vacancies for announcers. I decided to try my luck and recorded a cassette of a text that they instructed me to read and sent it off to the BBC. I got a very cordial letter back from Cormac Rigby who was the departmental head at the time. I didn't get an interview but he was nice enough to say that he thought I should continue to practice as he thought that I definitely might have something to offer in future! I suspect he was just being kind. All the same I was disappointed and cannot help but think what a joy it would have been to be part of the Patricia Hughes/Tony Scotland etc team!

[oddoneout]

Agreed - I’ve got over the irritation of this by always having this page available as a tab on my browser

https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules/p00fzl8t

to consult if ever I want chapter and verse about what is being played. TTN always seems to be fully itemised. Other programmes less so - the afternoon schedules are often next to useless

Well the content often isn't up to much either so perhaps that's not surprising. Now, strange idea this, but perhaps if they broadcast whole works or even, shock horror, whole concerts, it might reduce the margin for error by reducing the amount of material subject to mistooks, eeyores and emissions?

[pastoralguy]

On the other hand - here I'm thinking of TTN - do we need to know the names of the four Rumanian musicians, whom we've never heard of, and likely will never come across again?

Well, I think we do need to have the names of the four Rumanian musicians. Just because we’ve never heard of them now doesn’t mean to say we won’t hear of them in the future. I’m thinking specifically about a documentary about Herbert Von Karajan where he works with two up and coming singers. The first was Sumi Jo who had quite a high profile at the time and the second was a young Italian Mezzo called, as the credits would have it, Cecilia ‘Bardi’! I wonder whatever happened to her…

Theres a marvellous YouTube of a violinist playing the Tchaikovsky concerto absolutely magnificently. Alas, nowhere does it say who he is or who the orchestra and conductor are. I certainly don’t recognise him. If he’d been identified I would certainly have looked out for him.

[kernelbogey]

Well, I think we do need to have the names of the four Rumanian musicians. Just because we’ve never heard of them now doesn’t mean to say we won’t hear of them in the future....

Actually, I agree. Also, they are producing the music!

[richardfinegold]

There is probably an assumption that people are listening with a device that digitally lists the relevant information as the files are being broadcast, although those are problematic

[kernelbogey]

There is probably an assumption that people are listening with a device that digitally lists the relevant information as the files are being broadcast, although those are problematic

Of course also I think no one has mentioned that since the days of Peter Barker et al on R3 we have the Internet where you can get all the performers' details, minus only the location desired by Aunt Daisy. My experience of TTN is that Jonathan is fairly scrupulous about identifying festivals where the recordings originate.

[smittims]

I hope this is not a disturbing innovation by Sam, but I've noticed three times recently , music announced with an English translation of its title rather than the original language, e.g.

The girl with the flaxen hair

Without breathing, without sighing, and

So you betrayed me .

I think Radio 3 listeners should be paid the complement of understanding 'sans respirer, sans soupir' , 'la fille aux cheveux de lin' , and maybe even , in the case of Mozart's concert aria K432, 'Cosi dunque tradisci' . In the first case the french title was given as well as the translated one, buyt with the other two the original language was not quoted , though the Mozart aria was sung in Italian. I can't help feeling they've been told to do this .

[french frank]

I'd have thought they could be reasonably sure that anything in a language other than English will not be understood by a majority of R3 listeners. That may always have been true but certainly fewer will now understand either French or Italian than hithertoforehereafter.

[LMcD]

I hope this is not a disturbing innovation by Sam, but I've noticed three times recently , music announced with an English translation of its title rather than the original language, e.g.

The girl with the flaxen hair

Without breathing, without sighing, and

So you betrayed me .

I think Radio 3 listeners should be paid the complement of understanding 'sans respirer, sans soupir' , 'la fille aux cheveux de lin' , and maybe even , in the case of Mozart's concert aria K432, 'Cosi dunque tradisci' . In the first case the french title was given as well as the translated one, buyt with the other two the original language was not quoted , though the Mozart aria was sung in Italian. I can't help feeling they've been told to do this .

I would have had no idea as to what the first and third examples were, I would have had no trouble translating the first, but would still not recognize the piece concerned.

[oddoneout]

I'd have thought they could be reasonably sure that anything in a language other than English will not be understood by a majority of R3 listeners. That may always have been true but certainly fewer will now understand either French or Italian than hithertoforehereafter.

The meaning of the title may not be understood in the sense of being able to give an adequate translation on demand but the sound of the title will presumably in many cases be recognised in terms of evoking a musical memory? To then only provide the English version, which could well be unfamiliar, may not do the same - it won't prompt the same association. Better perhaps to always provide both.

[Pulcinella]

I hope this is not a disturbing innovation by Sam, but I've noticed three times recently , music announced with an English translation of its title rather than the original language, e.g.

The girl with the flaxen hair

Without breathing, without sighing, and

So you betrayed me .

I think Radio 3 listeners should be paid the complement of understanding 'sans respirer, sans soupir' , 'la fille aux cheveux de lin' , and maybe even , in the case of Mozart's concert aria K432, 'Cosi dunque tradisci' . In the first case the french title was given as well as the translated one, buyt with the other two the original language was not quoted , though the Mozart aria was sung in Italian. I can't help feeling they've been told to do this .

Singularly unhelpful, I'd have thought (though richardfinegold might tell us that it's common practice in the US).
Even if the website gives both titles (and I suspect it may well not if it links to the recording used) then you've got extra steps to identify the piece if you happen to want to hear it again/stream a different version, where its original title has correctly been used.
But then I suppose we do commonly translate and use English titles of some operas: The marriage of Figaro, for example.

[smittims]

I've no objection to an english translation being given but I think the title of the piece should be in its own language (i.e. no harm in giving both), especially when it's sung in that language. When an opera is sung in English I can accept its being announced as 'The Mastersingers of Nuremberg' without the german beign given .

My concern was not so much what they're doing as whether theyve been 'leaned on' by the dumbing-down squad to do it.