Hornspieler and the Threebees

[Hornspieler]

Readers who have followed the progress of this long thread will surely wish to know why I should have called it

"Hornspieler and the 4 Bs"

Watch this space!

HS

The fourth B is, of course, Birmingham which I mentioned in my text detailing my freelance activities following my resignation from the Ulster Orchestra's management and taking on another troublesome challenge ( the BBC Training Orchestra - laughingly renamed "The Academy of the BBC" ... Bristol, The last of my (now revised )4 Bs -

but first, I must take you back to 1956, when I was finally able to cast off the shackles of those enforced years as a member of the Royal Artillery Band.

This post, which will be my next, will detail my first encounter with music in the Emerald lsle - 8 years before the formation of the Ulster Orchestra in Belfast:

HS

[Hornspieler]

The fourth B is, of course, Birmingham which I mentioned in my text detailing my freelance activities following my resignation from the Ulster Orchestra's management and taking on another troublesome challenge ( the BBC Training Orchestra - laughingly renamed "The Academy of the BBC" ... Bristol, The last of my (now revised )4 Bs -

but first, I must take you back to 1956, when I was finally able to cast off the shackles of those enforced years as a member of the Royal Artillery Band.

This post, which will be my next, will detail my first encounter with music in the Emerald lsle - 8 years before the formation of the Ulster Orchestra in Belfast:

HS

So nobody is interested in learning why a group of professional musicians should opt to leave the security of a full symphony orchestra under an internationally recognised conductor (Milan Horvat), to enlist in a new 37 piece chamber orchestra, cobbled together from an assembly of local amateurs and "first job" ex-music students under the uncertain tutelage of Maurice Miles (who was never available on Mondays and weekends) to move house and home into the Province of Ulster?

Okay. If you'd rather use this forum to talk about the weather, football, cricket, bird watching and gardening, that's fine by me.

I am neither "for nor against" apathy but for myself, I prefer to use this forum to discuss and debate the future of musical performance and (equally importantly) the future of Radio Three on this particular forum.

HS

[Padraig]

So nobody is interested in learning why a group of professional musicians should opt to leave the security of a full symphony orchestra under an internationally recognised conductor (Milan Horvat), to enlist in a new 37 piece chamber orchestra, cobbled together from an assembly of local amateurs and "first job" ex-music students under the uncertain tutelage of Maurice Miles (who was never available on Mondays and weekends) to move house and home into the Province of Ulster?

Okay. If you'd rather use this forum to talk about the weather, football, cricket, bird watching and gardening, that's fine by me.

I am neither "for nor against" apathy but for myself, I prefer to use this forum to discuss and debate the future of musical performance and (equally importantly) the future of Radio Three on this particular forum.

HS

Hornspieler, I suppose now is as good a time as any to confess that I have little interest in the administration of any orchestra, be it the BPO or the UO. Sorry about that, but it is something that strikes me often as I read many of the threads on this forum; I just don't care about conductors, reputations of orchestras, names of performers or much else beyond composers and compositions.

However, some things do hold my interest when it is local in context. I have my own limited experience of the music scene in Northern Ireland, even if I don't remember the details that you have at your fingertips. I remember David Curry and his Irish music, which I rather liked. I remember the visits of the Ulster Orchestra - too rare - and the local belief that they only came to Derry to rehearse for the Ulster Hall later, though they billed the Ulster Hall Concert as the first of the season - don't deny it, I read the press advertisement at the time I'm referring to. And I well remember, say mid fifties, quite a while before the outbreak of the Troubles, when orchestral concerts in Londonderry were almost exclusively patronised by middle class Protestants. Well, there were few Catholics and no scruffy dressers.

Now, HS, at this time there were no riots, soldiers, overturned cars etc . They came later. What there was, was a growing feeling that it was not lack of musical appreciation that kept Catholics away; after all there was a vibrant musical tradition in the city which included traditional, classical, dance music - ballroom and Irish - choral, operatic, and two yearly festivals - the Londonderry Feis, and Feis Doire Colmcille. We were coming down with music and poetry. What kept Catholics away was felt to be the compulsory playing of the British National Anthem in a city 60% Irish. Those who did go to orchestral concerts had to stand for the anthem; I did myself for a while. So, there were no grand walk outs.

The first time I made a stand, as it were, had to be the one time I took a friend to a concert. I told my friend that I was not going to stand for the anthem. We sat and waited for the concert to begin, not speaking much. I said 'You stand if you want to'. The anthem began and we both remained seated. It was not a pleasant feeling - no proud rebel blood coursed through our veins. As the music died we felt the eyes upon us and a bit of defiance made its way to our own countenances. But, that was all that happened. I like to think that my civil rights education had its origins in that petty little display.

HS, I have always attended for the Ulster Orchestra when it came - well nearly always. I don't know exactly when the anthem ceased to be an issue, but it has made a huge difference to the composition of audiences. In later years I had a hand in organising concerts myself, but by then the Troubles were part of everyday life and the size of audiences was the main concern. Sadly, that organisation is now defunct and provision is scant. I do hope that the Ulster Orchestra survives this latest crisis, as I am sure you do too. Its history is very much tied up with the cultural and political life of the last half century in Derry.

[pastoralguy]

Hornspieler, I suppose now is as good a time as any to confess that I have little interest in the administration of any orchestra, be it the BPO or the UO.

Well said, Padraig. That's how I feel too.

Furthermore, if it takes Mr. Hornspieler 212 days to update his thread then it shows that he really doesn't care about his subject. And, if he doesn't care, why should we?

[Hornspieler]

Hornspieler, I suppose now is as good a time as any to confess that I have little interest in the administration of any orchestra, be it the BPO or the UO. Sorry about that, but it is something that strikes me often as I read many of the threads on this forum; I just don't care about conductors, reputations of orchestras, names of performers or much else beyond composers and compositions.

However, some things do hold my interest when it is local in context. I have my own limited experience of the music scene in Northern Ireland, even if I don't remember the details that you have at your fingertips. I remember David Curry and his Irish music, which I rather liked. I remember the visits of the Ulster Orchestra - too rare - and the local belief that they only came to Derry to rehearse for the Ulster Hall later, though they billed the Ulster Hall Concert as the first of the season - don't deny it, I read the press advertisement at the time I'm referring to. And I well remember, say mid fifties, quite a while before the outbreak of the Troubles, when orchestral concerts in Londonderry were almost exclusively patronised by middle class Protestants. Well, there were few Catholics and no scruffy dressers.

Now, HS, at this time there were no riots, soldiers, overturned cars etc . They came later. What there was, was a growing feeling that it was not lack of musical appreciation that kept Catholics away; after all there was a vibrant musical tradition in the city which included traditional, classical, dance music - ballroom and Irish - choral, operatic, and two yearly festivals - the Londonderry Feis, and Feis Doire Colmcille. We were coming down with music and poetry. What kept Catholics away was felt to be the compulsory playing of the British National Anthem in a city 60% Irish. Those who did go to orchestral concerts had to stand for the anthem; I did myself for a while. So, there were no grand walk outs.

The first time I made a stand, as it were, had to be the one time I took a friend to a concert. I told my friend that I was not going to stand for the anthem. We sat and waited for the concert to begin, not speaking much. I said 'You stand if you want to'. The anthem began and we both remained seated. It was not a pleasant feeling - no proud rebel blood coursed through our veins. As the music died we felt the eyes upon us and a bit of defiance made its way to our own countenances. But, that was all that happened. I like to think that my civil rights education had its origins in that petty little display.

HS, I have always attended for the Ulster Orchestra when it came - well nearly always. I don't know exactly when the anthem ceased to be an issue, but it has made a huge difference to the composition of audiences. In later years I had a hand in organising concerts myself, but by then the Troubles were part of everyday life and the size of audiences was the main concern. Sadly, that organisation is now defunct and provision is scant. I do hope that the Ulster Orchestra survives this latest crisis, as I am sure you do too. Its history is very much tied up with the cultural and political life of the last half century in Derry.

Thank you, Padraig, for a most interesting and well stated reply to my tetchy post - it encourages me to continue, but first, I must address Pastoralguy's message #79:

...Well said, Padraig. That's how I feel too.

Furthermore, if it takes Mr. Hornspieler 212 days to update his thread then it shows that he really doesn't care about his subject. And, if he doesn't care, why should we?

It was the coming of the New Year and with it, the celebration(?) of the Ulster Orchestra's 50th year of providing Ulster (and elsewhere) with the performance and more importantly the education of both young and old which drew my attention to the need to look again at this thread and seek a reason why the catastrophic situation which the UO finds itself in was fated from the start and I found a reason from something of significance in my narration of time spent in the CBSO during the period when I was freelancing as a player for most of 1969.

That is why I decided, (212 days later was it?) that Birmingham was a fourth 'B' to add to Bournemouth, Belfast and Bristol.


To explain why I've included Birmingham as a 4th 'B', I'm going to take you right back to 1956, when I managed to escape from the shackles of three years in the Royal Artillery Band.

So there is another post coming up which I shall hope to compose later today.

HS

[Hornspieler]

It was the coming of the New Year and with it, the celebration(?) of the Ulster Orchestra's 50th year of providing Ulster (and elsewhere) with the performance and more importantly the education of both young and old which drew my attention to the need to look again at this thread and seek a reason why the catastrophic situation which the UO finds itself in was fated from the start and I found a reason from something of significance in my narration of time spent in the CBSO during the period when I was freelancing as a player for most of 1969.

That is why I decided, (212 days later was it?) that Birmingham was a fourth 'B' to add to Bournemouth, Belfast and Bristol.


To explain why I've included Birmingham as a 4th 'B', I'm going to take you right back to 1956, when I managed to escape from the shackles of three years in the Royal Artillery Band.

So there is another post coming up which I shall hope to compose later today.

HS

.In fact, I should first mention my call to boost the strength of Queen's armed forces in 1953 at the age of 20.

Yes, National Service

Only the boys had to do it - the girls could complete their studentship, get their leaving certificates and go straight out to secure a job. This caused quite a lot of resentment among the students at the Royal Academy because the call up age (18) meant that they had to interrupt there studies (and their instrumental practise) for two years and then return to the RAM, starting,(in musical terms), from scratch (No pun intended)

As a youngster, I had suffered from rheumatism in my knees (we lived close to the River Nadder* and the water meadows with a fine view of John Constablr's Salisbury Cathedral from my bedroom window, so it was not until I was considered fit enough to serve her majesty but I was rated Grade 3 (Not fit enough for Overseas Service)

Now I had a problem:

National Service was for 2 years with the colours and then 1 night a week with the Territorial Army for 3½ years with a fortnight's Training Camp in the Summer.

In the two years when my call up had been deferred, I had built up quite a good many connections and had played with The RPO(Beecham) BBC S0, BBC Opera Orchestra(Stanford Robinson), a pool of players, known as "The Unit" drawn upon to staff those Popular Light Orchestras:
Michael Krein's London Light Concert Orchestra, Reg Kilbey's Casino Orchestra, Monia Liter's 20th century Serenaders and Lou Whiteson's Majestic Orchestra.

OK, I could probably have picked up those contacts again, but it was the Territorial Army Service that was impossible.

How could I say when offered a post in an orchestra "Yes, I'd love to join but I'm afraid that I won't be able to do Wednesdays"
My only option was to sign up as a regular - 3 years with colours and then 4 years on the reserve - which takes me back to 1956 and my release from bondage.
I had to join an Army Band based in London and the Royal Artillery Band (Woolwich) which also had a symphony orchestra
(string players had to be able to play wind instruments for Marches, Parades &c. was the obvious choice.

That's enough for now. I will go back to the happenings of 1956 tomorrow.

HS

BTW The Royal Artillery Orchestra is the Oldest established symphony orchestra in Great Britain.
Founded in 1762 and given official status in that year (more than 100 years before the LSO - often stated to be the oldest established orchestra in the country).

[LeMartinPecheur]

Well said, Padraig. That's how I feel too.

Furthermore, if it takes Mr. Hornspieler 212 days to update his thread then it shows that he really doesn't care about his subject. And, if he doesn't care, why should we?

pg: I do feel you are a long way out of order on this. We all post in the hope that somebody somewhere will be interested, but in the certainty that many, perhaps most, won't be. If we all posted protests about every thread that doesn't interest us this forum would become unendurable.

Those of us who were interested in HS's reminiscences are simply grateful that he's now resumed.

[Tony Halstead]

pg: I do feel you are a long way out of order on this. We all post in the hope that somebody somewhere will be interested, but in the certainty that many, perhaps most, won't be. If we all posted protests about every thread that doesn't interest us this forum would become unendurable.

Those of us who were interested in HS's reminiscences are simply grateful that he's now resumed.

'Well said' and totally agreed!

[verismissimo]

pg: I do feel you are a long way out of order on this. We all post in the hope that somebody somewhere will be interested, but in the certainty that many, perhaps most, won't be. If we all posted protests about every thread that doesn't interest us this forum would become unendurable.

Those of us who were interested in HS's reminiscences are simply grateful that he's now resumed.

Seconded.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

To be fair to pasty - who isn't wont to make uncharitable comments on this Forum - his #79 was in response to Hs' own rather cantankerous #77, which might itself be perhaps construed as "a long way out of order". And, to be equally fair, Hs himself took the comments laudably well on the chin and responded in admirable kind on the Oscar Lampe Thread. I hope this exchange will be allowed to fizzle out, and Hs will continue with his reminiscences, which I have found most interesting: not least for providing real insights into how Arts administration was managed in the '60s and '70s.

[gradus]

Seconded.

[Flay]

And thirded!

[Hornspieler]

1956 and the Suez Crisis. All those due for release had their release dates extended. I had just got out in time!


Only two days after "casting off the shackles" I received a phone call from BBC Contracts Dept.

They had Radio Eireann on the line, seeking for help. Their 1st horn had quit without warning and they were desperate to find a replacement, so could the BBC give them a name of someone who might be free? Was I interested?

I certainly was! 1st horn chair in a professional symphony orchestra. A position I had never held. Yes, yes, yes - I'll do it!
I was to collect a flight ticket from the Aer Lingus desk at Heathrow Airport for the 7.30pm flight to Dublin, where I would be met by the Orchestra Manager, who would conduct me into Dublin. I would be paid on the daily rate for extras and a subsistence allowance for the number of days that might be needed - anything from one week or longer. Well, this made a nonsense of my Army Recruitment panel.
"Not fit for overseas duties"? I'll show them!

Frank, the Orchestra Manager, conducted me to his little Morris Miner and we set off from the Airport. He was taking me to his own house in Artane (about seven miles from Dublin ) due to the lateness of the hour and we would set forth the following morning for the studio in Dublin.
Rita, his wife made me feel very welcome and, after a drop of the "hard stuff", I settled down for a good night's sleep.

Off in the car the next morning to Dublin. Eventually, we arrived outside an unimposing brick building, alongside a canal.

"Here we are," Frank announced. "Portebello Studio. Come in and meet everyone."

"How on earth do you fit a symphony orchestra in here?

"What symphony orchestra? Oh, you mean the National Symphony Orchestra
They use the Phoenix Hall in the city centre. This is the Radio Eireann Light Orchestra Thirty players - give or take."


That's enough for now. More tomorrow, where we investigate the Irish Government's National Symphony Orchestra!

HS

[Hornspieler]

Off in the car the next morning to Dublin. Eventually, we arrived outside an unimposing brick building, alongside a canal.
"Here we are," Frank announced. "Portebello Studio. Come in and meet everyone."
"How on earth do you fit a symphony orchestra in here?
"What symphony orchestra? Oh, you mean the National Symphony Orchestra
They use the Phoenix Hall in the city centre. This is the Radio Eireann Light Orchestra Thirty players - give or take."

Well, I could not have been more welcomed. As I entered the studio, carrying my horncase, there was a ripple of applause.
Frank introduced me to all of the players -starting with Liam, the 2nd horn and finishing with Dermot, the orchestra's conductor.

2 trumpets: Tommy King and Charlie Parkes
Trombone: Paddy Potts
Percussion: Joe Bonnie
2 Flutes: George ? and Anne Kinsella
Oboe: Raymond Flynn
Clarinets: Dan Murphy and Tommy Warren
Bassoon: Jim Bolger

Strings seemed to change a lot, but the core was Jack Cheatle,(Leader) His wife Aileen, Charlie, Elias and Monica Maguire (part of Hugh Maguire's large musical family) and two European exiles - Heinz Rittweiger and Egon Jorsch.

All natives of the Irish republic except for the two Europeans, myself and another Englishman, the Audio Engineer,
Keith Crowe - who was a keen amateur horn player*

Well, light music was no new thing for me, especially with my experience of playing for "The Unit" and I soon became accustomed to the diet of traditional Irish Ballads - some of them songs about "the troubles" (with the Radio Eireann Singers**) and the likes of Robert Farnon and Leroy Anderson.

Keith was a bit of a prankster and I must recount an incident when, during a rehearsal, he wound his way through the orchestra bearing a microphone on a large stand and angled it over the end of Jim Bolger's bassoon; adjusting it carefully and then disappearing, cable in hand, into the recording room. Of course, he didn't plug the cable in, but within minutes, Dermot,
indicating to the leader to continue playing, made his way into the recording booth and listened to the sounds emanating from the solitary loudspeaker.

"That Bassoon is much too loud" he told Keith."You'll have to take that microphone away! We'll take the tea break now.""

So, as the orchestra dispersed for their tea break, Keith made his way back to the studio, coiling the microphone cable carefully over his arm and removed the offending equipment to the place whence it came.

That's enough from me for the moment, but I haven't finished with Dublin and the Irish Government's renaming the Radio Eireanns Symphony orchestra as one of their National achievements.

HS

*In 1966, in Belfast, Keith turned up again; now working for BBC Northern Ireland and I was actually able to use him as a 4th horn with the Ulster Orchestra when nobody else was available.

** No, I didn't have any trouble with RE Singers. Quite the reverse in fact!

[Hornspieler]

That's enough from me for the moment, but I haven't finished with Dublin and the Irish Government's renaming the Radio Eireanns Symphony orchestra as one of their National achievements.

"That was as mean trick to play - but very funny"

Keith laughed. "Well, it sorts out the conductors' qualifications for the job"


We were discussing the afternoon's events.

"Do you think he was calling your bluff?"


"No. It was the typical reaction of an ex-army bandmaster."

"Who, Dermot?"

Yes. The Irish Army Band. Most of the wind and brass are ex-members, so they know him from old. When the band was disbanded, they moved en masse to this outfit where Dermot was already in charge. The Devil you know ...

What about the two Germans?

There are three, actually. George Popp was another. I think they fell out with the conductor of the symphony orchestra, Milan Horvat. He is Croatian and has no love for the "Master Race"


So tell me about this "National Orchestra

]International is more like it.
If you were to draw a big map of Europe on the floor in the Phoenix Hall, all the different nationalities would go and stand on their own countries during a tea break
The 1st clarinet is Italian. He refuses to 'take the A' from an Algerian oboist."

"The Horn section?."

"The 1st horn (Paul Laurent), is Belgian - well, Flemish actually. Something about him that - never mind.
2nd horn (? Essig) is German
3rd Horn Victor Malik is Yugoslavian. Probably the best of the bunch and should get on well with Milan Horvat
4th horn is an Irish boy. Paddy something or other. Look. I'll take you down to the Hall when I'm next on duty. You can see everything from the recording booth."

What is the relevance of all this?
My next post will leave Dublin and return to the subject of this thread

HS