Hornspieler and the Threebees

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  • MrGongGong
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 18357

    #31
    I think it took a while for the MU to realise that orchestral musicians are a small part of their membership.
    And, as you say, there are many "straight" (to use your phrase) musicians who now earn royalties from the sessions they did at the time whilst earning nothing for much of the orchestral work.

    One of my rants about "Macca" is that if you look at who was playing on his records (mr Civil et al) then his stance about not needing to read notation is a bit flimsy.

    But back to yours

    Comment

    • Hornspieler
      Late Member
      • Sep 2012
      • 1847

      #32
      Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
      I think it took a while for the MU to realise that orchestral musicians are a small part of their membership.
      And, as you say, there are many "straight" (to use your phrase) musicians who now earn royalties from the sessions they did at the time whilst earning nothing for much of the orchestral work.

      One of my rants about "Macca" is that if you look at who was playing on his records (mr Civil et al) then his stance about not needing to read notation is a bit flimsy.

      But back to yours
      It was my experience when in Bournemouth that the MU was run by part time musicians.

      There were two reasons:

      a)Union meetings were held on Sunday mornings when orchestral players were either rehearsing or having a lie in after a late Saturday night return from an out of town concert.

      b)Apathy. Most noticable in the Bournemouth orchestra. They complained about the constituents of the Local Branch being unhelpful to their needs, but never bothered to vote when the branch commitee came up for re-election. So two of us stirred them up, told them to stop complaining and to put up our own candidates. With 80 votes from the orchestral players, the dozen or so part timers had no chance.

      At last we were able to influence Union policy at both Local and National level.

      Time for bed. I haven't finished with the BBC and Bristol yet. There is a lot more to come.

      HS
      Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:26.

      Comment

      • Hornspieler
        Late Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 1847

        #33
        Sorry, but I have to do a little backtrack to Bournemouth here, before returning to the subject of Bristol and the BBC Training Orchestra:

        I joined the Bournemouth Symphony orchestra in 1958 on a contract as Principal Horn. During the eight years that I was a member, I found myself elected as Shop Steward (nobody else wanted such a dangerous job and perhaps I should have had more sense)

        Whether it was to counter my Union activities I have no idea, but the Orchestra Manager* had just retired and I was invited to take over his duties for a stipend of £7 per week to add to my basic Principal Rate salary.
        (Nobody was paid “Over the Odds” at this time – everybody was working for the minimum allowed MU rates and the extra few pounds towards the purchase of my first house was too much to refuse)

        So I found that I had a foot in each camp!
        I joked that I used to have terrible arguments with myself as I lay in bed and my wife told me that the ladies used to pump her for information as to what was happening – to which her standard reply was “…how should I know? He never tells me anything. You probably know as much as I do.”

        * The title “Orchestra Manager” is misleading. The duties are:

        Supervise the orchestra attendants setting up the platform.
        Book extras and deputies as required and carry a float of money to settle for their fees and expenses.
        Look after the Conductor and Soloists and ensure that their changing accomodation is suitable.
        and
        Take the Can Back for anything that goes wrong

        A mug’s game, really – but I learned a lot about improvisation, organisation and dealing with people.

        So when, in 1966, I realised that for much of the time I was playing on “Autopilot” and using only a very small percentage of my brain capacity, I decided to “put my money where my mouth is” and try my hand at managing an orchestra.

        The opportunity arose when the Arts Council of Northern Ireland announced the setting up of a new orchestra of full time players to replace the part-time City of Belfast Symphony Orchestra and advertised for a General Manager, I applied for the job (my wife was Irish anyway and would be nearer to her family),and because of my experience in both aspects of Planning and Player Management, I was offered the job.

        Goodbye to the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra but I took my horn with me in its case, just in case!

        Comment

        • gradus
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 5606

          #34
          HS, did you ever find your love of music compromised by having to take on admin/mgt roles in the orchestras, I could envisage the sometimes onerous nature of managing people/events becoming too closely associated with the thing you loved - if you see what I mean!

          Comment

          • Hornspieler
            Late Member
            • Sep 2012
            • 1847

            #35
            Originally posted by gradus View Post
            HS, did you ever find your love of music compromised by having to take on admin/mgt roles in the orchestras, I could envisage the sometimes onerous nature of managing people/events becoming too closely associated with the thing you loved - if you see what I mean!
            Love of Music?

            Well certainly not all of it, but I did have a love of playing - of offering something that was pleasing to other people's ears and to have the satisfaction of knowing that overcoming the technical difficulties of musical performance was an end in itself.

            I did not like all of the music that I played and would never have chosen to listen to some of it, but I fulfilled my duty to play it to the best of my ability for the pleasure of those who found it to their taste.

            That is the ultimate responsibility of a professional musician.

            With the instrument in my hands and a sheet of music in front of me, my only responsibilty was to satisfy the audience who had come to listen.

            (Sounds a bit pious, doesn't it? But it's true.)

            HS
            Last edited by Hornspieler; 07-06-15, 11:44.

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            • gradus
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 5606

              #36
              I wasn't clear, I really meant to ask if having to deal with arguments and disputes amongst your colleagues - and orchestras are notoriously disputatious - you enjoyed your playing less the more you became enmeshed in management issues, in other words did your mangement duties spoil it for you?

              Comment

              • Hornspieler
                Late Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 1847

                #37
                Originally posted by gradus View Post
                I wasn't clear, I really meant to ask if having to deal with arguments and disputes amongst your colleagues - and orchestras are notoriously disputatious - you enjoyed your playing less the more you became enmeshed in management issues, in other words did your mangement duties spoil it for you?
                The simple answer is "no", gradus.

                The job in hand is the only thing in one's mind (or should be) when performing any form of music.

                A perfect example is the late much lamented Dennis Brain.

                Before going on stage to perform a concerto, he would be in and out of the the "Gents" several times, but when he walked onto the stage and put the instrument to his lips, you could have set light to his trousers and he would not have noticed.
                I remember an occasion at the Freemasons Hall in Edinburgh when he played Mozart 4 (K.495)

                I was backstage because the concert was sold out.
                I knew I should keep my distance so I confined myself to chatting with Alan Hyde and the rest of the horn section.

                Even from backstage, I could hear that this was a great performance and the applause was thunderous. At Dennis returned backstage after several curtain calls, he noticed me for the first time. He didn't give me a chance even to say "Well done"

                Dropping his instrument into his canvas carrying bag he said "Hello Donald. Do you fancy a coffee?"

                Just as if nothing had happened.

                HS
                Last edited by Hornspieler; 08-06-15, 06:46.

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                • Hornspieler
                  Late Member
                  • Sep 2012
                  • 1847

                  #38
                  Hornspieler and the 3 B's

                  Finale: Allegro con fuoco

                  When I accepted the post of Manager of the newly formed Ulster orchestra it was for a contract of 2 years, renewable by mutual consent.

                  During those two years, I had recruited my office staff, engageded two loyal platform attendants (I inherited the music librarian from the former City of Belfast Orchestra) organised booking office facilities in all the venues, found a good publicity company, gained access to the Bournemouth orchestra's Programme Note writer and purchased a new van to transport the orchestra's heavy equipment.

                  Maurice Miles was persuaded to resign on the grounds of his commitments to the Royal Academy of Music and I found a new conductor who I had met and played for - Sergiu Comissiona a pupil of Silvestri. I had also poached an assistant conductor, my former colleague from the BSO horn section, Alun Francis, who had studied conducting with Silvestri during the Maestro's tenure in Bournemouth.

                  But towards the end of my contract, I decided not to renew. There was constant interference from the Director of the Northern Ireland Arts Council - a former bassoon player who had always wanted to manage an orchestra but had now found himself in a higher post. He was continually arranging for artists to appear with the orchestra, at excessive fees on dates when there was not even a concert hall of adequate size available.

                  Embarrasing and frustrating but even worse was the political unrest within the Province. When they started turning police land rovers on their side in the Falls Road and audiences walked out if we played the National Anthem, I decided that enough was enough.

                  I moved the family back to Bournemouth, where my wife was offered an immediate position as Nº 3 1st violin (Principal Rate)

                  That ensured an income for the family, but the horn section had already been completely replaced and so I went freelance.
                  The CBSO were awaiting the arrival of their new chief conductor, Louis Fremaux, but their co-principal horn had left to follow another career, so I was asked to hold the seat until Fremaux could attend auditions for a replacement.

                  So, for nearly eight months, I shared the chair with John Johnson, formerly of Liverpool and a very experienced campaigner. (So experienced, in fact that he was cute enough to suggest that I should play the first ha,lf of the programme allowing me to get away early and, because his wife was in the violin section and he had to wait to drive her home, he would play the second half).

                  Very clever! That meant that he got to play the Tchaikowsky, Brahms and Beethoven symphonies and I was stuck with 1st performances of Arts Council commissions, errant concerto soloists and Berlioz overtures.

                  Anyway, that was only in 1969. For the next three years I was playng as far afield as Glasgow (Scottish Radio Orchestra) London (LPO, RPO and BBC Concert Orchestra) and also managing the business of Arthur Davison's "Virtuosi of England" with whom I also played when horns were required.
                  Too much time away from home. I had to find something nearer - like Bristol, for instance........
                  Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:36.

                  Comment

                  • Lordgeous
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2012
                    • 830

                    #39
                    Fascinating stuff. More please! Have you considered writing a book, or a blog on the web?

                    Comment

                    • Hornspieler
                      Late Member
                      • Sep 2012
                      • 1847

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Lordgeous View Post
                      Fascinating stuff. More please! Have you considered writing a book, or a blog on the web?
                      Too late for that, I'm afraid.

                      But I did write a little Christmas Stocking Filler in the 1990s called "Bravo Maestro" containing many reminiscences of a musician's life.

                      If you send me an email hornspieler@virginmedia.com I will be glad to send it to your email address as a doc file attachment .
                      That offer is open to all forum members.

                      ... back to the 3 B's in my next post.

                      HS
                      Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:38.

                      Comment

                      • Hornspieler
                        Late Member
                        • Sep 2012
                        • 1847

                        #41
                        In the years freelancing, from 1970-72 my yearly car mileage averaged 40,000.

                        I was spending more time looking through a car windscreen than watching a man waving a stick. It was time to consider my options.

                        I think it was George Hurst who told me that BBC Bristol were looking for a new manager for the Training Orchestra. He must have mentioned my name to them, because I received a letter inviting me to discuss an appointment.

                        I was 40 years old and had been a professional horn player for twenty two of those years***. There were many bright young players, inspired by the achievements of Dennis Brain, Ifor James, Barry Tuckwell and the like, who would be aiming for my chair.
                        So I decided to take the Bristol Job and give up playing except for my own amusement.

                        Who wants to be fighting to keep his chair against all "young pretenders" until the age of 60; just to reach his pensionable age? I adopted the attitude that, if anyone could say that they had heard me play badly, they would need to have a long memory - not a short one.

                        So I would give up playing for money in spite of many attempts by friends "not to be so stupid" (or obstinate, or selfish).

                        The vacancy in Bristol was due to the early retirement on health grounds of the present incumbant. (Heart attack - not a good omen)
                        The post was listed as "Assistant-in-charge" and the salary scale was AS4 (Administrative Services Grade IV) but I pointed out in interview that the requirements were those of a Manager, rated MP2 (Management and Production, more than twice the money)
                        I had stumbled on a winner. The poor chap I would be replacing had, in fact, been doing a certain amount of production for the orchestra's studio broadcasts.

                        Later, when I found out what I had taken on, I was inclined to wonder whether that was the reason for those heart attacks.

                        Anyway, I even managed to add a subsistence allowance for overnight hotel accomodation and felt quite pleased with myself, but when I discovered what I had taken on, I wasn't so sure.

                        However I will leave that for my next installment of that Fairy Tale for Grownups "Hornspieler and the 3 B's"

                        HS

                        *** I compiled two lists a few months ago:

                        Hornplayers I had played alongside 104

                        Conductors I had played for 127

                        Astonishing! (and I'm sure that I have forgotten a few).
                        Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:44.

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                        • Hornspieler
                          Late Member
                          • Sep 2012
                          • 1847

                          #42
                          Hornspieler and the 3 B's

                          "The Academy of the BBC"

                          What idiot dreamed up that title for the chamber-orchestra sized remnants of the much heralded BBC Training Orchestra?

                          Was this an attempt to put this outfit on a par with "The Academy of St Martins in the Field"?

                          "Academy of lost sheep in a field" would have been more appropriate.

                          In this present day, the word "Academy" is the name given to schools that have failed their pupils and been taken over by government appointed administrators.

                          Maybe the new title was a lot more appropriate than its creators were aware.

                          So I arrived in Bristol to take charge of a depleted training orchestra which nobody really wanted (or needed) any more but was obliged to fulfill the BBC's commitment to the Musicians Union and the overpaid disk jockeys of Radio 1 and 2 to produce one studio recording per week and one public concert per month for Radio 3 (or was it still called the Third Programme?)

                          The BBC announced that all the terms and conditions agreed by all parties would be adhered to but the continuance of the orchestra would only be guaranteed for a further five years, after which the situation would be reviewed (and resolved, of course, by conveniently forgetting all about it)

                          This meant that the "maximum 3 years of tenure" guarantee for players who joined could only apply to those enrolling before 1976, but nobody was thinking that far ahead.

                          The BBC had pulled a fast one - or had they?
                          Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:50.

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                          • Hornspieler
                            Late Member
                            • Sep 2012
                            • 1847

                            #43
                            Bournemouth to Bristol. A nice easy run through the lovely Cranborne Chase and via Shaftesbury into Bristol down the hill at Gurney Slade avoiding Warminster and that depressing road through Bath.
                            I had just traded in my thirsty Rover 3 litre coupé (ideal for those long runs between Bournemouth and Glasgow) for a neat little red MGB sports car and driving across those hills, looking down across the landscape stretching away to the North, I felt like a fighter pilot doing a low level attack.

                            Well, forget about the early morning Walter Mitty indulgence. I was already aware that my personal dog fight was yet to come in the personages who had landed the BBC Training Orchestra into its current unwanted and partly disabled state.

                            Leonard Hirsch had gone and the orchestra was now conducted by a variety of guest conductors. A permanent Leader had been engaged (Peter Mountain) to keep things under control and to be advisor and councillor for the orchestra members and able to maintain orchestral discipline during rehearsals and performances.

                            I soon discovered that the very presence of these imported 'students' was particularly resented by other members of the BBC staff, who would hve liked to see the money spent on more important needs (their own departments) and this was particularly evident in the BBC Club, where, as 'staff members' they were entitled to membership and where their behaviour was very disruptive.

                            ... but I digress - so back to business:

                            Conductors engaged by the Head of Music (BBC Bristol) varied from 'Very Good' - George Hurst, Rudolf Schwarz, Charles Groves
                            'Adequate' - Manoug Parikian, Meredith Davies (that Hereford Cathedral organist) to
                            Why is he here? - like Victor Feldbrill. Imported all the way from some obscure Canadian orchestra.

                            I found that some programmes for studio broadcast had already been agreed - between Bristol's Head of Music and HMPR (Head of Music Programmes, Radio) in London at Yalding House.

                            Actual recording times, venues for rehearsal and recording, and extra facilities required (piano, ophicliede, harpist or what have you? etc.) had not been arranged and that was the first task that I would have to address.

                            How did I manage those first few weeks?
                            Read my next post to find some of the answers.

                            HS
                            Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:54.

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                            • Hornspieler
                              Late Member
                              • Sep 2012
                              • 1847

                              #44
                              I should have mentioned that my father, in his eighties decided to try his hand at painting pictures. A bit like 'Grandma Moses' he had no conception of scale or perspective but the family liked them and kept them to this day. But I decided to have a go, having not touched an artists brush since my schooldays and I painted a portrait of my dog Susan.

                              Copied from a photograph of course - nobody could get an animal to pose for a couple of hours.

                              Anyway, here it is - my first attempt to scale the walls of Burlington House in 1972

                              There is a relevance to my next instalment of HS and the 3B's



                              (Oil painting of the back of a section of hardbord)
                              Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 07:56.

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                              • Hornspieler
                                Late Member
                                • Sep 2012
                                • 1847

                                #45
                                The reason that failing schools become taken over as 'Academies' is very often because of a surfeit of pupils in that particular catchment area.

                                The Academy of the BBC was quite the reverse. There were too many empty desks.
                                The least that one would expect to find in a Chamber Orchestra would be twelve violins, 6 violas, 4 cellos and 1 or perhaps 2 double basses.

                                In terms of wind instruments one would expect one flute, two oboes, two horns and two bassoons as a minmum working staff.

                                To cover the sort of programmes which some bright spark had already submitted and been approved for transmission, required the addition of another flute, 2 clarinets (and a percussion/timpanist.) Well, we actually had one of those, but we would certainly need 1 or 2 extra violas and, looking at the programmes already agreed, a 2nd flute, 2 clarinets, a second bassoon and for one programme, a harpist.

                                To hire those additional players would be cripplingly expensive, so it was decided to add the extra flute, the clarinets and bassoon by setting up a scheme whereby players would be auditioned and recruited on a part-time contract which was limited to a maximum of eight weeks employment in any year.
                                Surprisingly, the MU had no objection and quite a few candidates turned up, anxious to get at least some work which, for classical wind players was not easy.

                                String players? We still had a few gaps, with more vacancies expected as people finished their three year engagments so the business of holding further auditions for string players was continued as before.

                                I will continue with this after a nice cup of tea and a toasted scone.

                                Shan't be long!

                                HS

                                I've just decided to watch "Pointless" on BBC TV before continuing.

                                It will be very appropriate for the next part of this sad saga.
                                Last edited by Hornspieler; 23-06-15, 08:00. Reason: typos

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