Music on the verge (effectively) of becoming extinct

[umslopogaas]

I wonder what Sibelius might have written if he'd had Sibelius ... we might have got that eighth symphony after all.

[Serial_Apologist]

Speaking of Maurice Ohana, a number of his piano pieces are to be broadcast on this lunchtime's interesting-looking concert. Make the most of him: his piano music sounds like 1940s Messiaen's sans schmaltz; and I don't think he's been mentioned on R3 for a good quarter of a century.

[richardfinegold]

Could one of the mods delete post 21 or 22? Don't know how the duplication happened.

[Bryn]

Could one of the mods delete post 21 or 22? Don't know how the duplication happened.

Actually, you can delete it youself as an option within the modify routine.

[richardfinegold]

Forgive my ignorance, I seem to have heard of very few of the composers named on this thread , but is the theme of the thread really "Relatively Modern Music on the verge of becoming extinct"? There are loads of composers who have "dipped below the horizon" for 200-400 years, only to reappear triumphantly in recent times. One example might be Silvius Leopold Weiss (same dates as Bach), who wrote exclusively for an instrument which suffered a Darwinian extinction in the mid-18th century, only to experience a resurgence in the 20th century as the baroque lute has been extensively cloned from the DNA of old instruments? Is natural selection a useful analogy here?

An idle Bank Holiday thought, sorry

Personally I like the idea of mixing Composers through the ages. If we are going to do the "book club" approach my only request be that there at least 1 currently available recording of the work. it could be you tube.

[Richard Barrett]

With developments in technology, and in musical culture in general, over the past century, it seems to me very unlikely that any music will become "extinct" in the way that used to happen in the past, when very little value was placed on music from previous times. Once something has been "remembered" so to speak, it won't be completely forgotten, and however obscure a composer is, or was, once there is someone somewhere with an enthusiasm for and commitment to their work it will eventually find its way out into the world (unless our present civilisation itself comes to an end, which isn't impossible of course given the rate at which the ecosystem is being degraded).

Having said that, I imagine there are hundreds if not thousands of composers even in the 20th century whose work was obscure and largely unperformed in their lifetimes and whose collected manuscripts gather dust in attics and cellars, neglected by descendants, scholars and potential performers. Most of this material has perhaps little potential; but who's to decide?

A lot of the time, also, I think it's necessary to experience enough of a composer's work to get a feeling for the ways in which they stand out from their contemporaries. I didn't pay that much attention until very recently to the work of Christoph Graupner (1683-1760) because the few pieces I'd heard struck me as not particularly individual; with wider exposure to the work, however, a recognisable and indeed memorable musical personality comes into view. (His fall into obscurity was caused largely because of a long legal dispute between his heirs and his princely employer after his death as to who owned his collected performance materials, during which time they couldn't be performed. Once the case was resolved music history had moved on; but on the positive side his large musical output was all kept together and survived in its entirety, unlike that of Bach for example.) Hearing one or two pieces by a relatively unknown composer and dismissing them as undistinguished, therefore, often does a disservice to the music.

There is also still an unfortunate tendency for many people tacitly to assume that if something is obscure it probably isn't very good. But at any period in history (including this one!), there's an enormous diversity of music being created, from which in the past whatever survived often did so by chance. (And how many entire musical cultures in various corners of the world have come and gone without ever attracting the attention of anyone outside a small geographical area, let alone been documented and recorded?) It's never been possible at any moment in history to look at that diversity and immediately see what music is going to be found relevant to future times, or even, most of the time, which music is original and which is epigonal. Nor is it now.

[Zytnia]

van Dieren definitely comes to mind as a composer 'on the verge of extinction'—I only have a recording of one of his works. There are possibly a couple more recordings out there, but vanishingly few

There's quite a bit of van Dieren to be found on the Internet. Seek and he shall find!

[Bryn]

There's quite a bit of van Dieren to be found on the Internet. Seek and he shall find!

Good to see you back here, oh hair of the dog. Did you intend "he" or "ye" in your most recent message?

[pastoralguy]

I wonder what Sibelius might have written if he'd had Sibelius ... we might have got that eighth symphony after all.

I believe that Sibelius did complete the score of the Eighth symphony but burned it.

Imagine if Mozart, Beethoven or Schubert had had Sibelius! The irony for me is that this modern technology exists in an age where there are no genius' to require it...

[Roehre]

I believe that Sibelius did complete the score of the Eighth symphony but burned it.

The firtst movement was sent to a copyist already, but that guy returned it to the composer on Sibelius' request as he wanted to change some passages........

Imagine if Mozart, Beethoven or Schubert had had Sibelius! ....

Then we would never have had Beethoven's extensive sketches and likely none of Mozart's or Schubert's incomplete scores.....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The irony for me is that this modern technology exists in an age where there are no genius' to require it...

... and an age where people don't know how to use the apostrophe.

[Serial_Apologist]

... and an age where people don't know how to use the apostrophe.

An apostrophology would be appreciated...

[ahinton]

Can't find pastoralguy's quote
"Quote Originally Posted by pastoralguy View Post
The irony for me is that this modern technology exists in an age where there are no genius' to require it...[/quote]
The "genius" factor here reminds me of Schönberg's old friend the pianist and acerbic wit Oscar Levant (1906-72), once described as "the Amadeus of Hollywood, the Oscar Wilde of Broadway and the most wildly self-destructive personality ever to become a household name", who's well known for his observation "there's a fine line between genius and insanity; I have erased this line" and who's also credited with the confession that he was "once thrown out of a mental hospital for depressing the other patients", who also and perhaps more famously remarked that "what the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left"...

[teamsaint]

Speaking of Maurice Ohana, a number of his piano pieces are to be broadcast on this lunchtime's interesting-looking concert. Make the most of him: his piano music sounds like 1940s Messiaen's sans schmaltz; and I don't think he's been mentioned on R3 for a good quarter of a century.

A good chunk of his music available to hear and download here.

http://avantgardeproject.conus.info/mirror/agp77/index.htm

[Serial_Apologist]

A good chunk of his music available to hear and download here.

http://avantgardeproject.conus.info/...gp77/index.htm

Nice! Thanks TS.