Music on the verge (effectively) of becoming extinct

[Dave2002]

This could perhaps just as well be raised on the CD Review thread. The concern/interest is of works by composers which are little known and difficult to find. I recall one last year - though unfortunately I can't remember exactly what it was - where a board member had managed to obtain one of the last copies of a CD with music (French?) which by the time I looked seemed to have become completly unobtainable. As the composer was obscure/little known there were only ever a few of his works which made it to CD, and now he has probably faded completely into obscurity, along with my remembrance of him.

Some composers are perhaps worth rescuing. I just discovered some violin sonatas by Robert Kahn http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/w/2...n-G-minor-Op-5, which are at least worth hearing, and also the Czech composer Josef Bohuslav Foerster wrote quite a lot of music which is still available, but again fairly obscure.

One composer whose star has virtually gone out is Dimitrios Levidis - the only reference I can find to his music is this on YouTube - one piece - not even sure if it is genuine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhU_FryhOMg as I have no easy way of cross checking. However, the dates given in the image suggest that "Homage" is one of his works or that "Homage" is the title of one of his works or a else a performance/CD. Perhaps there is more of his music available in Greece, though it seems much of his work may have been done in France. Also he wrote one of the early works for ondes martenot, so may deserve credit for that.

Sometimes, but perhaps not often, musicians dip below the horizon and yet reappear later.

I think it might be useful to keep a record of such musicians in a thread, such as this one. Perhaps the music of some of them may be kept alive if we try. I trust that this might not turn out to be a triumph of hope over experience.

[EdgeleyRob]

Foerster's music seems to make a revival the last couple of years.

There are always some composers whose works are obscure until some decades after their death.
Then the revival begins. Zemlinsky is a good example: at the end of the 1970s the first recordings of music of his started to appear, especially the 2nd string quartet (LaSalle on DGG) and the Lyric Symphony (on Italia). Nowadays nearly his full output (including some unfinished/disgarded pieces) has been recorded and is available in very good recordings and performances (including the former DGG recordings on Brilliant-rereleases).

Mahler is a similar case - who would have thought in the mid-1960s that now every conductor and orchestra of some fame considers doing a Mahler cycle of greater importance than a Beethoven cycle?

Shostakovich seems to experience a similar development. Decca's decision in 1977 to record all the symphonies with LSO/RCO-Haitink was much derided, thought of as a waste of money and means by some critics.
Have a look how many symphony cyckes have been recorded, and also how many string quartets have taken DSCH in their repertoire.
Since Decca's (unfortunately discontinued) Entartete-Musik-series in the 1990s composers who fled the Nazis or were murdered by them returned into the lime light - Goldschmidt, Ullmann, Wellesz to name but three are examples of this.
Kahn is likely to rise to some fame in this light as well, I think.

But nearer at home: until the mid1980s Vaughan Williams' output was not really considered worth to make many recordings of. Now we've got the luxury of many symphony cycles, and even chamber works and juvenilia are recorded. Though here -as we've seen in recent BaLs- the rising interest is mainly British ( or English speaking countries).

So there are obscure composers, and many will remain obscure, but the really interesting ones will emerge eventually IMO.

I wonder if Weinberg's time will come,in the concert hall that is ?
Maybe it has in Russia and Poland,I don't know.
Plenty of his music on record nowadays.

[Roehre]

Foerster's music seems to make a revival the last couple of years.

There are always some composers whose works are obscure until some decades after their death.
Then the revival begins. Zemlinsky is a good example: at the end of the 1970s the first recordings of music of his started to appear, especially the 2nd string quartet (LaSalle on DGG) and the Lyric Symphony (on Italia). Nowadays nearly his full output (including some unfinished/disgarded pieces) has been recorded and is available in very good recordings and performances (including the former DGG recordings on Brilliant-rereleases).

Mahler is a similar case - who would have thought in the mid-1960s that now every conductor and orchestra of some fame considers doing a Mahler cycle of greater importance than a Beethoven cycle?

Shostakovich seems to experience a similar development. Decca's decision in 1977 to record all the symphonies with LSO/RCO-Haitink was much derided, thought of as a waste of money and means by some critics.
Have a look how many symphony cyckes have been recorded, and also how many string quartets have taken DSCH in their repertoire.

Since Decca's (unfortunately discontinued) Entartete-Musik-series in the 1990s composers who fled the Nazis or were murdered by them returned into the lime light - Goldschmidt, Ullmann, Wellesz to name but three are examples of this.
Kahn is likely to rise to some fame in this light as well, I think.

But nearer at home: until the mid1980s Vaughan Williams' output was not really considered worth to make many recordings of. Now we've got the luxury of many symphony cycles, and even chamber works and juvenilia are recorded. Though here -as we've seen in recent BaLs- the rising interest is mainly British ( or English speaking countries).

So there are obscure composers, and many will remain obscure, but the really interesting ones will emerge eventually IMO.
But don't forget: only from the German/Austrian monasteries and local castles there are some 100.000 scores dating from before 1806 in the Viennese archives which need to be assessed (and it is certainly possible that e.g. Beethoven's oboe concerto is among them). The 19C publishing houses have a similar number of scores, either in their archives to be published, or in one or two remaining copies. The 20C has produced even more scores.

The only truly internationally operating labels which are effectively rummaging through al this are Naxos, CPO and D+G .
But nationally(and hence in these isles unfortunately considered to be rather obscure) there are labels which serve the "locals" relatively well too, like to some extant Chandos, Hyperion, Dutton in Britain, Deutscher Musikrat, Wergo in Germany, Musikszene Schweiz/Libris in Switzerland, Channel Classics, Etcetera and Donemus in the Netherlands, DaCapo in Danmark, Polskie Nagrania in Poland, Supraphon in the Czech Republic, and also the early music labels, e.g. Avie and Ricercar (and we do have New Music labels too, think of Neos and NMC)

[Serial_Apologist]

French 20th century composers outwith the Les Six and Messiaen/IRCAM circles have been exceptionally badly served by Radio 3. I've mentioned this a couple of times on this forum, listing names and posting utube clips of little known figures to demonstrate how good and interesting they are or were, but no one else here seemed interested.

[Roehre]

I wonder if Weinberg's time will come,in the concert hall that is ?
Maybe it has in Russia and Poland,I don't know.
Plenty of his music on record nowadays.

I think Weinberg's time is coming.

[Dave2002]

I wonder if Weinberg's time will come,in the concert hall that is ?
Maybe it has in Russia and Poland,I don't know.
Plenty of his music on record nowadays.

ER

How have you done that? You managed to quote a post which apparently had not been written when you posted your approving one?

Maybe it can be done by careful timing, or by one of you (in this case yourself and Roehre) deleting one of your posts, then resinststing it.

[EdgeleyRob]

ER

How have you done that? You managed to quote a post which apparently had not been written when you posted your approving one?

Maybe it can be done by careful timing, or by one of you (in this case yourself and Roehre) deleting one of your posts, then resinststing it.

Blimey,I don't know how that has happened,Roehre's post was there when I typed mine,very confusing.

[teamsaint]

French 20th century composers outwith the Les Six and Messiaen/IRCAM circles have been exceptionally badly served by Radio 3. I've mentioned this a couple of times on this forum, listing names and posting utube clips of little known figures to demonstrate how good and interesting they are or were, but no one else here seemed interested.

S_A, I think the problem on this board is that we are a very small number, and with so much music to discover, each of us is limited in time. I'm actually very interested in various french composers that you have mentioned, ( as no doubt are many others hereabouts,) many of whom were discussed on a thread that you started, but it really is hard to do them all justice at an individual level.
That said, it is important that each of us pushes our specific enthusiasms to keep the candles burning.

As a side issue, it is hard to keep enthusiastic about posting links, leads, thoughts, suggestions when response on the board is often minimal at best.....but perhaps we just need to keep at it and be patient.

Right, back to the never ending quest for Nurymov recordings......

[Serial_Apologist]

Blimey,I don't know how that has happened,Roehre's post was there when I typed mine,very confusing.

There are more things.......

[Roehre]

Blimey,I don't know how that has happened,Roehre's post was there when I typed mine,very confusing.

No, ER is not psychic. I changed my posting and added new paragraphs and then re-posted the whole lot, deleting the old one. But in the mean time ER had posted his contribution. That's all. Sorry for the confusion

[Dave2002]

re msg 1, I wonder if it was Caliban who mentioned the French CD which was obscure sometime - probably last year. I think there was a link to one of the pieces on it, and I tracked down what the CD was, but by then it was unavailable.

[teamsaint]

re msg 1, I wonder if it was Caliban who mentioned the French CD which was obscure sometime - probably last year. I think there was a link to one of the pieces on it, and I tracked down what the CD was, but by then it was unavailable.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?11120-Paul-Ladmirault-a-composer-for-all-who-like-RVW-Bax-et-al&highlight=ropartz

something on here Dave?

here is S-A's neglected Frenchies theread.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?8481-Neglected-20th-Century-French-composers&highlight=french

[Dave2002]

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...hlight=ropartz

something on here Dave?

here is S-A's neglected Frenchies theread.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...ghlight=french

Thanks. It was indeed the Ladmirault CD. I note that I provided a post with quite a few other links to minority interest works - just over a year ago. http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...983#post397983

I still deplore the lack of a CD and/or the lack of a decent download. MP3 doesn't count!

[Historian]

As a side issue, it is hard to keep enthusiastic about posting links, leads, thoughts, suggestions when response on the board is often minimal at best.....but perhaps we just need to keep at it and be patient. Right, back to the never ending quest for Nurymov recordings......

I am often guilty of not responding and I will try to do better.

However, that does not mean that I am not grateful to forum members who have taught me a great deal musically (among other areas). Radio 3 used to fulfil that function when I was younger, not so successfully now.

[teamsaint]

I am often guilty of not responding and I will try to do better.

However, that does not mean that I am grateful to forum members who have taught me a great deal musically (among other areas). Radio 3 used to fulfil that function when I was younger, not so successfully now.

Like you, Histo, I have learned a huge amount from Board members, and continue to do so. Conversations around music and performance, and the act of putting thoughts online, in front of a highly knowledgeable (potential) audience also concentrate the mind, in a really positive way.