Essential Messiaen discs.

[makropulos]

I'm glad to see you say that because it's my feeling too. The entry of the first chords in the opening movement for example is an unforgettable timbre... something that had me searching out a score to see what strange thing was going on there. Of course when you look at the score it's "just chords". Despite Messiaen's fairly transparent composition technique there's something quite intangible going on that in a sympathetic performance performs some kind of alchemy on the notes and turns them into such memorable sounds... I guess this is connected somehow to the synaesthetic ideas behind Messiaen's harmony and orchestration - one might not "see the same colours" as the composer but there is certainly something different going on there.

What do you think of Previn's recording of Turangalîla, makropoulos? Everyone here seems to be raving about it but it never did much for me. (Admittedly it's many years since I heard it.)

Hmm. To be completely honest, I find it a little lacking in motive power and slightly undercharacterized (though I like Béroff, and the whole thing is certainly efficient). The best performance I've ever heard of Turangalîla was Myung-Wha Chung/Roger Muraro/Valérie Hartmann Clavérie/Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France - at the Châtelet in 2002. A little anecdote about that: I took Yvonne Loriod back to her apartment in a taxi afterwards and she said "After so many years, it's wonderful at last to hear someone else playing it!" And of course she loved Muraro's playing. Actually, that was an amusing taxi ride in general - I was grateful for the traffic jam that gave her time to gossip slightly wickedly about Solti ("a fine conductor, but he promised things to OM that never happened"), Boulez ("he collects first performances like a trophy hunter") and a few others - including Marius Constant, whose conducting was apparently a bit chaotic, but his "Canyons" is still very much my favourite (though De Leeuw is an impressive alternative; I'm definitely a non-fan of Salonen's recording).

Chung's earlier record isn't quite as good as that concert, but it's still the one I'd pull off the shelves first. But I don't listen to Turangalîla all that often on record, since it always seems to do more for me live. (The Messiaen records I play most ofter are probably: Constant's set of Des Canyons, De Leeuw's Transfiguration –my two favourite Messiaen works – along with things like the first Boulez Et exspecto and Couleurs, the Domaine musical premiere of Oiseaux exotiques, the first (Dial) recording of Visions de l'Amen ...)

[Richard Barrett]

I think Mme Loriod might have been referring to Boulez in earlier decades! since he didn't do that much in terms of first performances in the last 30 years or so.

Interesting to be reminded that she had a high opinion of Muraro's performances, given that he's recorded all the piano music and I haven't heard any of those recordings. That's something I look forward to exploring.

[Bryn]

Muraro's complete survey on CDs comes from concert performances. The DVD of Vingt Regards is a delight.

[Richard Barrett]

Vintage Regards

Are you posting from a "smart"phone by any chance?

[Alison]

Any views on the recent LPO/Eschenbach Des Canyons?

[Bryn]

Are you posting from a "smart"phone by any chance?

Got it in one!

Re. The Erato Messiaen Edition, it is worth reminding the unwary that something of a hatchet job was done to the tape print-through problem which quite heavily affected many of the original 1988 box of jewel cases CDs. They came replete with the pre- and post-echo of the print-through. The more recent (2008) slip-cased set trimmed the print-through, resulting in horribly clipped piano notes, etc. with no decay time or reverberation. You might find it worth your while seeking out the earlier transfers.

[Petrushka]

Any views on the recent LPO/Eschenbach Des Canyons?

I bought the disc a few weeks back and, in my admittedly very limited knowledge of the piece, it sounds ok to me. Having said that I find the work overlong. The Eschenbach two disc set clocks in at 100' 06''.

[Richard Barrett]

I didn't even know about that, Alison! but since as I said it's my favourite Messiaen piece I shall have to get it. The original Constant is still the one I prefer to hear (when it was announced on LP I spent I think two days scouring the London record shops - of which there were very many in those times of course - before eventually finding it in Wimbledon), but the Chung recording is also very fine. Salonen on the other hand somehow drains out of the piece the sense of awe that's surely its raison d'être.

[Richard Barrett]

The more recent (2008) slip-cased set trimmed the print-through, resulting in horribly clipped piano notes, etc. with no decay time or reverberation.

Indeed. I recall the print-through from the LPs rather than the older CDs. These days it must be possible to reduce it without spoiling the recording... a friend recently demonstrated to me a DAW plugin which could quite convincingly reduce the amount of reverb on a recording!

[makropulos]

I didn't even know about that, Alison! but since as I said it's my favourite Messiaen piece I shall have to get it. The original Constant is still the one I prefer to hear (when it was announced on LP I spent I think two days scouring the London record shops - of which there were very many in those times of course - before eventually finding it in Wimbledon), but the Chung recording is also very fine. Salonen on the other hand somehow drains out of the piece the sense of awe that's surely its raison d'être.

I have to declare an interest, having written the notes for the Eschenbach set, but I'd be intrigued to hear what you think of it (I see the whole thing is avaiable to try out on spotify). For myself, I'm more than happy with Constant and/or De Leeuw. Like you, this is one of my very favourite Messiaen pieces (along with Transfiguration) - and Eschebach certainly makes a committed case for it.

[Bryn]

Looks like Richard might have to bite the bullet and force himself to listen to the De Leeuw, for which I too have a soft spot. Bought separately the pro rata price is pretty indefensible compared to the 6 CD set:



I got the content separately before the boxed set was released.

[mangerton]

The first time I heard "Tarangulîla" was on one of John Peel's radio programmes, probably in the early 70s. The only recording I have I have is off-air from the 2008 Proms () - BPO, Rattle. I must study this thread carefully and buy one.

I have Gillian Weir's complete organ works on Collins, and I also have Jennifer Bate's "Nativité".

One of the first LPs I ever bought c 1969 was a recording of the "Nativité". ISTR it cost about 10/6, and was recorded by Simon Preston, possibly in St Giles' Cathedral. Can anyone here confirm that this is possible, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

[Pulcinella]

One of the first LPs I ever bought c 1969 was a recording of the "Nativité". ISTR it cost about 10/6, and was recorded by Simon Preston, possibly in St Giles' Cathedral. Can anyone here confirm that this is possible, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I had it too, an Argo CD.
Reissued as part of this set.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Messiaen-Nativité-Seigneur-Transfiguration-Jésus-Christ/dp/B00000E448/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1429451616&sr=1-2&keywords=Messiaen+preston

Westminster Abbey, 1965 production date (also gives 1973, but I assume that that is for La Transfiguration).
So memory playing only partial tricks: timing would be right!

[Don Petter]

No mention yet of my favourite Messiaen- or perhaps more accurately, the one that introduced me to his music when I was a teenager- Trois Petites Liturgies.
After hearing it at the Proms (1965?) I purchased the Baudo recording which subsequently became an indispensable accompaniment to my adolescent angst.

Also my favourite Messiaen work. I have versions including two with Loriod conducted by Couraud which my listing seems to imply are in fact different recordings. (I can't lay my hands on the CDs just now.) They are on Les rarissimes de Olivier Messiaen (EMI 0946 385275 2CDs) and Erato (0630-17905-2 1CD).

I also have the Virgin recording with Edwards, but in view of your recommendation have been trying to find reference to the Baudo recording, without success. Could you give further details?

[Bryn]

The first time I heard "Tarangulîla" was on one of John Peel's radio programmes, probably in the early 70s. The only recording I have I have is off-air from the 2008 Proms () - BPO, Rattle. I must study this thread carefully and buy one.

I have Gillian Weir's complete organ works on Collins, and I also have Jennifer Bate's "Nativité".

One of the first LPs I ever bought c 1969 was a recording of the "Nativité". ISTR it cost about 10/6, and was recorded by Simon Preston, possibly in St Giles' Cathedral. Can anyone here confirm that this is possible, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

I never got on with Rattle's Turangalila performances until that 2008 Proms one. Quite renewed my faith in him.