Holst IN THE BLEAK MIDWINTER film

[Bax-of-Delights]

I'd have to agree Boilk. I wanted much more commentary about the man and less of the bleeding chunks. Did I miss the contributions from Edmund Rubbra and Elliot Carter? I don't think I dropped off but can't swear to it.
In fact I mis-read the timing of the programme and thought it was to end at 10.20 - and was a little perturbed to discover that there was another hour to go!

It was nice to see Livia Gollancz (a former employer). I hadn't realised she had been a pupil of Holst.

[MickyD]

Very glad that I recorded the programme last night - I'm really looking forward to an uninterrupted viewing of the whole thing when time permits.

[kernelbogey]

I shall watch it later in the week on iPlayer - it's available there until late on Sunday evening, 1 May.

[salymap]

I recorded it to watch later. Mixed opinions on it as expected. Can anyone tell me whether the Red Priest of Thaxted had connections, or preached, at a London Church, All Hallows, Barking by the Tower? I remember visiting it with a musician friend who was very knowledgeable about Holst but can't remember the details.

[Norfolk Born]

So after hearing extracts from Egdon Heath, the Perfect Fool, Beni Mora and the quite remarkable Lyric Movement - WHY couldn't we have had these at the Proms this year instead of yet ANOTHER 'Planets' !!

'The Planets' offers more opportunities to clap between movements, thereby promoting the interactivity that some people associated with BBC music programmes seem (for reasons best known to themselves) to consider a Good Thing.

[BBMmk2]

Good to see Besses o.th.Barn Band playing that excerpt from 'A Moorside Suite.' I can't place the conductor though? Unofrtunately my eyes were telling me it was time for bed after that point so I will catch up on iplayer.

[DracoM]

Indeed, I kept thinking exactly the same. why do we never hear 90% of his output in the Proms. Astonishing. The Lyric Suite on its own would be a welcome addition to viola literature, and there were so many othr peices.

Have to agree about the very silly visuals with Egdon Heath, which is a brooding piece about the great SW moorlands, and not about sun-lit upland / mountains!!

[salymap]

Were the Holst 'Two Psalms' mentioned? 'Tomorrow, shall be my dancing day'and 'This have I done for my true love' [if I remember correctly] They are beautiful little pieces, are they played now?

[DracoM]

Yes.

[Suffolkcoastal]

I agree Boilk, to be quite honest it was one of the worst documentaries I've seen for a long while, even by the standards of the 10th rate documentaries with which we have to put up with these days generally. I just sat there at the end shaking my head in total and utter disappointment as I'd so looked forward to seeing it.

It was basically a total mishmash, inappropriate imagery, very little enlightening information, only the old comments from Imogen were really of any value, absolutely key and revolutionary works (Savitri, Hymn of Jesus for example) not even mentioned. The comments from Rubbra and Carter were nowhere to be seen, no real examination of Holst's works, style, sound world etc or really anything that I didn't know already about Holst. I got heartily sick of 'I vow to thee my country' continually cropping up and what on earth were those stupid crossover arrangements included, more dumbing down???

I'm sorry Mr Palmer, simply not good enough, I suggest you take your documentary away and drastically rewrite/refilm large portions and endeavour to actually find out more about this great composer before resubmitting it!

[Uncle Monty]

Well, you know what you're going to get from a Tony Palmer film. Dead casualties of war in the loud bits, random landscapes in the quiet bits. It's a trademark, like the nude nuns de rigueur in Ken Russell films

I thought it was good enough to watch again. I know it's not necessarily much of a recommendation to say it's the only one available, but at least someone had the enthusiasm and love to undertake it, when (disgracefully) no one else has.

I'm sure I'll find many holes to pick in it, but I'm glad to have it.

By the way, if you write to TP and give him the benefit of your thoughts, I'm sure he will reply. He's very accessible like that. Through his website, I believe.

[Mary Chambers]

I got heartily sick of 'I vow to thee my country' continually cropping up and what on earth were those stupid crossover arrangements included, more dumbing down???

I assumed they were included to show how much the piece has been abused and misused. He did rather labour the point.

I found the film somewhat confusing, though that may have been my fault. When there is archive footage I want dates. All the same, it did have something to say about Holst's unusual and interesting character. It didn't convert me to his music, though. I don't object to it, but I can take it or leave it.

[EdgeleyRob]

Indeed, I kept thinking exactly the same. why do we never hear 90% of his output in the Proms. Astonishing. The Lyric Suite on its own would be a welcome addition to viola literature, and there were so many othr peices.

Have to agree about the very silly visuals with Egdon Heath, which is a brooding piece about the great SW moorlands, and not about sun-lit upland / mountains!!

Couldn't agree more,but then if RVW is missing from the proms then poor old GH doesn't stand a chance!(along with a lot of British composers)
I found some of the imagery in the film a bit odd and a lot of his music not even mentioned (choral symphony for example).

[DracoM]

< I got heartily sick of 'I vow to thee my country' continually cropping up and what on earth were those stupid crossover arrangements included, more dumbing down??? >

But as Mary C says, suffolketc, you missed the exact point Stephen Johnson made at the VERY start about 'Vow''s use and particularly its abuse - cue any number of such uses and abuses and that was intended to make us cringe I am sure - plus how much Holst hated the words, and the uses to which it had /has been put. And in fact, Johnson was good at explaining bits [ not enough I agree] of Holst's innovative craft in some of the Planets. I was then struck by how much of what Johnson pointed out was a working method resonated through the music we then heard throughout. And for a documentary, we actually got a heck of a lot of music per unit minute, and not necessarily with voice over either. And a good number of people who knew and worked with him. Didn't quitre see the point of the four hands Mars - what was needed threre was a scholar pointing out what had been 'edited' - we saw MS pages with sick-ons and stick-overs, but what was underneath?

For me, it opened up Holst in a way I am grateful for. Yes, if you are en expert / fan. then I can imagine it would have been a disappointment, but just hang on with the vociferous disillusion - at least we now have a documentary. Maybe others will step in to fill cracks?

Tamas Vasary was a total turn off, whereas Sian Davis was terrific - why do we not see more of her? -

[Suffolkcoastal]

Yes I know he was trying to make a point but it was considerably overstated and 'I vow' appeared again later on plus Jupiter (the 4 hand arrangement was also Jupiter not Mars btw). I got nothing from Stephen Johnson, which is probably because I'm so familiar with Holst's method, we did get a fair amount of music granted, but it was jumbled up too much, there wasn't a clear structure to the documentary it just seem to flounder from one thing to the next. Missing out Savitri and Hymn of Jesus was totally unbelievable, as I mentioned these works are an absolute necessity in any discussion of Holst and are highly revolutionary. Perhaps I was setting my sights too high and we should be grateful that someone has taken the trouble to do this documentary, but at the same time why should we make do, as is often the case these days, with such a poor standard of a documentary, haven't we right the to expect and get a much higher standard?

Agree about Sian Davis though, we do need to see/hear much more of her.