Elgar's The Last Judgement.

[Barbirollians]

Someone will be telling me that there is a lengthy violin solo in this piece next and that Ida Haendel will be playing it .

[ahinton]

Great news indeed. Looking forward to it (though I must admit that for me Elgar's oratorios are a bit too much of the good thing - and I cannot really stand Gerontius)
If it's a job in the same category as the 3rd symphony we might be in for some nice surprises....

The Kingdom and The Apostles are to me uneven works each of which have most inspired moments; I have to disagree with your take on Gerontius, which I think is utterly wonderful...

[ahinton]

Much of the thematic material confirms Elgar's continued us of motivic material used in The Apostles and The Kingdom. It has been known for some time that the prelude was used by the composer for the opening of his 3rd symphony.

Has it really? Where's the documentary evidence for that?(!) - and why, if the ms. sketches were do discardED, were they in RCM untouched for so long? and who at RCM knew of their existence there? We should be told (or recognise the announcement date, which happens to the the joint birthday of Rachmaninov and Busoni)...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I give up.

[Roehre]

The Kingdom and The Apostles are to me uneven works each of which have most inspired moments; I have to disagree with your take on Gerontius, which I think is utterly wonderful...

I do agree with you re the oratorios; my opinion re Gerontius is less musically than textually defined.

[ahinton]

...à la manière, indeed, de Mohandas Ghandi's answer to the question as to what he thought of Western civilisation, namely that it would be a good idea...

[Roehre]

Roehre, Roehre, do please note the date on which EA initiated this thread.

I am just waiting for the 3rd symphony should not be called Elgar's third symphony brigade

[ahinton]

I am just waiting for the 3rd symphony should not be called Elgar's third symphony brigade

"Brigade"? Is there an actual (taxpayer funded?) miltary force that contends that the piece as it is generally accepted and understood should not be so accepted and understood?

That said, what exactly are you waiting for this alleged "brigade" to do?

[Roehre]

"....
That said, what exactly are you waiting for this alleged "brigade" to do?

Stopping performances of Elgar 3, Mahler's orchestrated 10, Mozart's completed Requiem, Schubert's completed unfinished, Beethoven 10, Bruckner's finished 9 etc etc etc etc

[Nick Armstrong]

How typical.
Great news spoiled by stupid posts.

I am so pleased to hear this news. For me Elgar's oratorios are a delight - 'The Apostles' in particular and I shall look forward to Anthony Payne's realisation.

That's one heck of a straight face, AjAjAjH !!

Actually, reading on, they're all at it, Alpie!

I give up.

It's the way you tell 'em!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Actually, reading on, they're all at it, Alpie!

What I'm waiting for is a real barny (handbags at ten paces) between Forumistas with vastly different opinions about Elgar's last oratorios - all based on a reconstruction (that hasn't been done) of a work that doesn't exist!

[MrGongGong]

What I'm waiting for is a real barny (handbags at ten paces) between Forumistas with vastly different opinions about Elgar's last oratorios - all based on a reconstruction (that hasn't been done) of a work that doesn't exist!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What I'm waiting for is a real barny (handbags at ten paces) between Forumistas with vastly different opinions about Elgar's last oratorios - all based on a reconstruction (that hasn't been done) of a work that doesn't exist!

It's already begun.

This bit about the Third Symphony is true.

[Nick Armstrong]

What I'm waiting for is a real barny (handbags at ten paces) between Forumistas with vastly different opinions about Elgar's last oratorios - all based on a reconstruction (that hasn't been done) of a work that doesn't exist!

I'm sellin' tickets, ferney-me-lad, only ten quid a pop, get 'em 'ere !!

[ahinton]

Stopping performances of Elgar 3, Mahler's orchestrated 10, Mozart's completed Requiem, Schubert's completed unfinished, Beethoven 10, Bruckner's finished 9 etc etc etc etc

If that startd to happen, I can see people reaching for their lawyers and barristers and getting court dates booked!

It's all as inconsistent as it's daft, of course. In years gone by, one usually only ever heard the first movement of Mahler 10, although even this has been subject to a little subsequent tweaking but, if the rule must be "only what the composer wrote", then why not perform the rest of the symphony as Mahler left it, without the orchestral cloak with which various people have subsequently clothed it (most effectively the final efforts of the Cooke/Matthews×2/Goldschmidt team)? The Schubert and Beethoven examples are indeed questionable, I think, yet in Elgar 3 there was almost sufficient material for a symphony in its 120+ pages of notes and sketches. B ruckner 9 is perhaps an even more complex case inpoint; it was long thought that hardly any of its finale existed in the composer's hand but it has subsequently been discovered that he actually wrote quite a lot of it and it is still suspected by some that not all of what he did write has yet surfaced. And then there's the revision situation; should we only ever be allowed to listen to Rachmaninov's revisions of his first and fourth piano concertos and second piano sonata, or Sibelius's of his fifth symphony (which is almost a new piece altogether)? And what of Bartók's viola concerto and Busoni's final opera Doktor Faust?; should they be banned from the concert and operatic stage respectively and from the recording studio because their respective composers didn't quite manage to get to their final double barlines?

Clearly, this "brigade" of which you write must have materialised from the mind-numbingly gross incompetence of UK armed forces procurement and should accordingly be forced to the front of the queue for defence "rationalisations" (i.e. cutbacks)