Music has nothing to do with politics (again) ?

[Serial_Apologist]

Politics is defined as the exercise of power, surely? That encapsulates not mere election politics, a tiny part of a huge edifice, but office and family politics, and what feminists used (rightly) to call the politics of the personal. We can argue on what such power rests, but surely there's no arguing about the definition?

My feeling, though, is that the reluctance on here to consider what music actually has to do with politics is that oppressive political regimes have often insisted that music must have an explicitly political dimension, say, be on some overt political theme. And they would have good grounds - inasmuch as politics is often narrowly defined in such injunctions, as it is in those who here seek to define the political in music so as to deny it.

But since the much-vaunted idea of "choice" has been raised here, perhaps one should be certain when conditions are likely to arise which are propitious to its exercise. What is happening to Radio 3 musical broadcasting is germane here, I would think... and political, too!

[french frank]

Citizens/subjects engaging in activity relating to the polity, is what I meant. Including their activity, not just the state's.

Ah, I see. Well, I would say that the polity is an organised entity and those who engage in activity (as individual citizens or groups) relating to that entity are engaging in politics, yes. But that defines (limits) what they are engaging in. In doesn't necessarily include the arts, though it might do - and more often now, it does. But that is some distance from saying that music is 'political' or that it is involved with 'politics': again, it might be.

[Beef Oven!]

Politics is defined as the exercise of power, surely? That encapsulates not mere election politics, a tiny part of a huge edifice, but office and family politics, and what feminists used (rightly) to call the politics of the personal. We can argue on what such power rests, but surely there's no arguing about the definition?

My feeling, though, is that the reluctance on here to consider what music actually has to do with politics is that oppressive political regimes have often insisted that music must have an explicitly political dimension, say, be on some overt political theme. And they would have good grounds - inasmuch as politics is often narrowly defined in such injunctions, as it is in those who here seek to define the political in music.

But since the much-vaunted idea of "choice" has been raised here, perhaps one should be certain when conditions are likely to arise which are propitious to its exercise. What is happening to Radio 3 musical broadcasting is germane here, I would think... and political, too!

Politics is indeed solely concerned with power. I wanted to make this point earlier.

But it's not the exercise of power, power is the goal; it determines behaviour. It's in our DNA (or how God created us, if you prefer).

[french frank]

Politics is defined as the exercise of power, surely?

By whom?

My feeling, though, is that the reluctance on here to consider what music actually has to do with politics [ … ]

I think the reluctance is to do with the omission of the word 'can' - 'can have to do with politics'. It's a reluctance to agree that that is what music is 'about'.

[Serial_Apologist]

Politics is indeed solely concerned with power. I wanted to make this point earlier.

But it's not the exercise of power, power is the goal; it determines behaviour. It's in our DNA (or how God created us, if you prefer).

The need for water, food, sleep, shelter and protection are higher up on many people's lists of personal behavioural motivators than power.

[Serial_Apologist]

By whom?

By anyone. Now you're going to ask me where it comes from!

I think the reluctance is to do with the omission of the word 'can' - 'can have to do with politics'. It's a reluctance to agree that that is what music is 'about'.

All right.

[Beef Oven!]

The need for water, food, sleep, shelter and protection are higher up on many people's lists of personal behavioural motivators than power.

I'm not limiting power (and therefore, control) simply to relationships. In our DNA (or, how God etc) is the drive to exercise control, exert power, over our environment. We are ants!

[teamsaint]

I'm not limiting power (and therefore, control) simply to relationships. In our DNA (or, how God etc) is the drive to exercise control, exert power, over our environment. We are ants!

ever since Adam?

[Beef Oven!]

ever since Adam?

Prince Charming has returned from B&Q (or was it Home Base?)

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm not limiting power (and therefore, control) simply to relationships. In our DNA (or, how God etc) is the drive to exercise control, exert power, over our environment. We are ants!

In order to exercise what you call power, you first of all need to have a relationship. It can be a bad one, but it's still some kind of relationship.

[Beef Oven!]

In order to exercise what you call power, you first of all need to have a relationship. It can be a bad one, but it's still some kind of relationship.

One does not need to have a relationship (with another being) to exert what (in a Spock voice) I call power, over the environment. One can shelter from the elements, find food and a warm place to.......without a relationship.

[Serial_Apologist]

One does not need to have a relationship (with another being) to exert what (in a Spock voice) I call power, over the environment. One can shelter from the elements, find food and a warm place to.......without a relationship.

Engaging with anything is having a relationship. One way intended or not one depends on what one thinks one needs to control. Not acknowledging this may be part of the domination problem.

[teamsaint]

Prince Charming has returned from B&Q (or was it Home Base?)

DIY is a Dog eat Dog business. Wickes actually, and I got an extra £3 off a pack of jig saw blades.

I am using them to assert some control over my environment.

[Beef Oven!]

Engaging with anything is having a relationship. One way intended or not one depends on what one thinks one needs to control. Not acknowledging this may be part of the domination problem.

Are we getting a tad semanticalistical?

[Serial_Apologist]

DIY is a Dog eat Dog business. Wickes actually, and I got an extra £3 off a pack of jig saw blades.

I am using them to assert some control over my environment.

Opening a branch?