Women Composers' Thread/International Women's Day 2015 on R3

[Nick Armstrong]

his comment that if it was good enough to be broadcast yesterday, it should be broadcast during the rest of the schedules is one I applaud. The joy of yesterday's Festival is that it introduced me to a lot of Music that very clearly is deserving of regular and frequent broadcast - and I hope the Beeb gets enough feedback from listeners to make them realize the obligations that they have made for themselves as a result of the Festival.

[Demetrius]

Its a simple and obvious point, ( but well made), and my concern about the Radio 3 approach is that it really lets them off the hook, longer term.

Same might be said in other areas or programming too.

Clearly, these sort of events can be an effective way of opening up debate, programming etc, but there is at least equal danger, IMO, of them become tokenistic.

A real commitment by R3 to integrate more female composers, " neglected " composers, contemporary composers on daytime programming would be far more effective at opening up opportunities for female composers, since , despite the issues in big commissions, women are far better represented in today's composing world than ever before.

A broader selection of composers and pieces then, with less fuss and feathers around it, so that one may listen to the unknown without worrying over (fe)male/(under)privileged/whatever and pick what appeals for further exploration. Then, some listeners (in my opinion as a rank amateur, of course) will find themselves being interested (or not) in works by composers who happen to female. In my case that would include Smyth, Farrenc and Maconchy, with Amy Beach and Ellen Zwillich in the "or not"-category.

However, I don't think this day represents some sort of classical affirmative action scheme. It is just a fact that playing neglected/unknown/lesser known work seems to require some sort of apologetic reasoning: It's British; It's a Female composer; The Composer's Dog would celebrate his 100th birthday today. Without these reasons, this music would in fact not be played, though, which is in my view a worse fate that the antics of commentators during those "fests" (Still waiting for the David Diamond total immersion week, btw).

[teamsaint]

Given Ferney's 3% statistic, I wonder if Suffolk Coastal's 2014 survey would throw any light on exposure for contemporary women composers on R3,both as a total, and as a percentage compared to men. ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think if Alpie had avoided the expression "freak show" and referred instead to "tokenism", then I think he might well have avoided some of the flak he has received, because his comment that if it was good enough to be broadcast yesterday, it should be broadcast during the rest of the schedules is one I applaud.

I never in a million years considered the women composers to be "freaks". I was referring to the style of presentation that pervades when R3 think they have a "new idea" that can be dressed up and exploited.

[teamsaint]

and I hope the Beeb gets enough feedback from listeners to make them realize the obligations that they have made for themselves as a result of the Festival.

Do you really think that will happen though?

they could just commit to playing two substantial pieces by contemporary composers between 7 am and 9 PM each day, and ensure that they are broadly 50/50 on gender lines. Not really unreasonable for a station of almost wall to wall classical music. They committed to a whole day, why not two interesting pieces per day ? IMO, this would be far more effective long term, than a one off day long event. much less scope for listeners to miss out, for a start.

if yesterday isn't just, or mostly, tokenistic, why wouldn't they commit further, without positive feedback?

While discussing these issues, one might ask useful questions about how ( and how far) women achieved the representation that they do in areas like Rock, folk, world music.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I never in a million years considered the women composers to be "freaks". I was referring to the style of presentation that pervades when R3 think they have a "new idea" that can be dressed up and exploited.

Yes - I think that that has become clear.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes - I think that that has become clear.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Do you really think that will happen though?

Oh, crumbs! If I only commented on things I "really think will happen", I wouldn't get out of bed in the mornings. Existence is one long struggle to nurture optimism - I continuously spit into the wind in the hope against experience that just once it won't get blown back into my face.

[Anna]

My Goodness - what a lot of fuss over this! International Women's Day has happened every year since 1911 in most countries and is supposed to celebrate the economic, political and social achievements of women past, present and future and - whilst celebrating women's success - reminding of inequities still to be redressed in our fight for equality, never more needed than now in certain parts of the world.

I'm sorry that some men here have a problem with what they perceive as inferior (i.e. women) composers but there is an 'off' switch on your radio!!

[jean]

Indeed!

I had hoped this thread would have given rise to some interesting discussion about actual women composers whose work was played.

But I should have known better.

[Radio64]

My Goodness - what a lot of fuss over this! International Women's Day has happened every year since 1911 in most countries and is supposed to celebrate the economic, political and social achievements of women past, present and future and - whilst celebrating women's success - reminding of inequities still to be redressed in our fight for equality, never more needed than now in certain parts of the world.

[ahinton]

Still only 3% of the composers who have contracts with Music publishers.

I think if Alpie had avoided the expression "freak show" and referred instead to "tokenism", then I think he might well have avoided some of the flak he has received, because his comment that if it was good enough to be broadcast yesterday, it should be broadcast during the rest of the schedules is one I applaud. The joy of yesterday's Festival is that it introduced me to a lot of Music that very clearly is deserving of regular and frequent broadcast - and I hope the Beeb gets enough feedback from listeners to make them realize the obligations that they have made for themselves as a result of the Festival.

Agreed on all counts!

[Beef Oven!]

I think we are making hard work of this.

[ahinton]

My Goodness - what a lot of fuss over this! International Women's Day has happened every year since 1911 in most countries and is supposed to celebrate the economic, political and social achievements of women past, present and future and - whilst celebrating women's success - reminding of inequities still to be redressed in our fight for equality, never more needed than now in certain parts of the world.

I'm sorry that some men here have a problem with what they perceive as inferior (i.e. women) composers but there is an 'off' switch on your radio!!

I'm sorry about that, too, although not all male members (sorry!) here are thereby afflicted...

[ahinton]

Indeed!

I had hoped this thread would have given rise to some interesting discussion about actual women composers whose work was played.

But I should have known better.

I agree, but there's still time, I hope...

The silly aspect of all of this - and one which does not in any sense undermine the cause of overlooked composers, be they women or not, is, as I've pointed out before (at the risk of stating the b*****g obvious), that it's impossible to tell whether a piece was written by a woman just by listening to it - and I do believe that this is a not unimportant fact.