Women Composers' Thread/International Women's Day 2015 on R3

[P. G. Tipps]

It's rather patronising and arrogant IMV to suggest that (assuming that you are a man?) there's 'no point' in celebrating music by women when you aren't one yourself.
Maybe (and I know this to be the case for many women composers I have met) there IS a great deal for us to discover that would otherwise be overlooked.
Some music DOES concern itself with gender issues, or are you suggesting that somehow that's not allowed?

Next time I see Pauline Oliveros i'll suggest she asks your permission to write something?

As patronising and arrogant as I may appear to others, Mr GG, I feel obliged to immediately confess I'm not in the slightest interested in 'gender issues' when I listen to music!

If it were Antonia Bruckner or Josephine Green I'd still love the music, believe me!

[MrGongGong]

As patronising and arrogant as I may appear to others, Mr GG, I feel obliged to immediately confess I'm not in the slightest interested in 'gender issues' when I listen to music!

If it were Antonia Bruckner or Josephine Green I'd still love the music, believe me!

That's fine
but don't presume that you have the right to tell others what to do OR to dismiss their concerns.

(Bach's music is crap though isn't it? all that stupid made up sky fairy worship nonsense.)

[P. G. Tipps]

That's fine
but don't presume that you have the right to tell others what to do OR to dismiss their concerns.

(Bach's music is crap though isn't it? all that stupid made up sky fairy worship nonsense.)

I love Bach, Mr GG ... how dare you, madam!

[MrGongGong]

I love Bach, Mr GG ... how dare you, madam!

I love Bach as well
but it would be so much better without the religious rubbish

[P. G. Tipps]

I love Bach as well
but it would be so much better without the religious rubbish

So you know better than the great JS? .... Good Heavens! (oops, so sorry!)

[Beef Oven!]

I love Bach as well
but it would be so much better without the religious rubbish

That's sacrilege!

[ahinton]

OOOPS wrong planet?

Whether you think there is a "point" or not, has (thankfully) nothing to do with anything at all.

"I feel the hot air of another planet", as in?...

[ahinton]

I love Bach as well
but it would be so much better without the religious rubbish

The only way that I can imagine the St. Matthew Passion being "so much" anything "without the religious rubbish" is so very, very much shorter; you'd not advocate that, surely?(!)...

Anyway, what I might advocate for our resident P.G. scotTipps is a few rounds in the ring with the wonderful Grazyna Bacewicz (though I'd not have wished such a fate on her, of course...

[ahinton]

That's sacrilege!

Not quite sure about that, but it's certainly as impractical as it would be improbable!

[P. G. Tipps]

The only way that I can imagine the St. Matthew Passion being "so much" anything "without the religious rubbish" is so very, very much shorter; you'd not advocate that, surely?(!)...

Anyway, what I might advocate for our resident P.G. scotTipps is a few rounds in the ring with the wonderful Grazyna Bacewicz (though I'd not have wished such a fate on her, of course...

Looks a bit of 'all right' to me, ahinton ....

https://classical20.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/grazyna_bacewicz-1.jpeg

Don't be so sexist!

[Flosshilde]

If it were Antonia Bruckner or Josephine Green I'd still love the music, believe me!

I think that even if Antonia Bruckner had managed to write any symphonies, what with dealing with Anton, she would have been very fortunate to get them published.

In fact, how do you know they aren't by Antonia? It's only recently that it's been realised, or accepted, that compositions credited to Felix were in fact written by Fanny, and there has been a suggestion that Anna Magdalena Bach wrote works credited to Johan Sebastien. And think of the female 19th century novelists who had to publish under an assumed male name.

[P. G. Tipps]

I think that even if Antonia Bruckner had managed to write any symphonies, what with dealing with Anton, she would have been very fortunate to get them published.

In fact, how do you know they aren't by Antonia? It's only recently that it's been realised, or accepted, that compositions credited to Felix were in fact written by Fanny, and there has been a suggestion that Anna Magdalena Bach wrote works credited to Johan Sebastien. And think of the female 19th century novelists who had to publish under an assumed male name.

Well, Felix 'n' Fanny certainly has a co-operative (corporate?) ring to it ... ?

Didn't Benjamin Franklin adopt female pseudonyms? And quite a few others as well.

Get over your gender obsession, Flossie. It's all right, most men (and women) won't harm you!

[doversoul1]

I think Women Composers’ Day on Radio 3 should be just like Anniversary Composers’ Day. It will be good to hear the music we rarely hear, and will be fascinating to find out about the circumstances in which they composed or how their music was lost and found etc., but ‘women’ is a factual tag like the year of birth* by which to produce the programmes and not a musical significance.

When / if people start saying that the music is worth listening to because it was composed by a woman, or we should listen to more women composers’ music because the music composed by women is as good as music composed by men, or something to the effect, then that is where patronising creeps in. If I were a composer, I would be most disappointed to find that people take notice of my works because I am a woman or discussed the works as a woman’s composition.

*in the case of anniversary composers. It’s a different matter when the subject is a historical period.

[Flosshilde]

I think Women Composers’ Day on Radio 3 should be just like Anniversary Composers’ Day. It will be good to hear the music we rarely hear, and will be fascinating to find out about the circumstances in which they composed or how their music was lost and found etc., but ‘women’ is a factual tag like the year of birth* by which to produce the programmes and not a musical significance.

But it is of social significance - the fact of being a woman, for a long time in history (and indeed in now), meant/means that a) it was difficult to find time to concentrate on composing (or writing, or painting, etc) (see Virginia Woolf's 'A Room of one's own') - writing was perhaps easier as it required little in the way of special equipment & could be concealed - as Jane Austen did when anyone entered the room; b) if one did manage to write anything it was viewed as second rate & unimportant (Gustave's attitude towards Alma's compositions, for example); c) it was very difficult to get it published - witness the number of female writers who had to use male name to get published, or do it anonymously. In the case of composing it was even more difficult to get it performed.

When / if people start saying that the music is worth listening to because it was composed by a woman,

I don't think anybody is suggesting that.

or we should listen to more women composers’ music because the music composed by women is as good as music composed by men,

Well, we don't know because we hear so little of it, but I suspect that it is just as good as music composed by men.

If I were a composer, I would be most disappointed to find that people take notice of my works because I am a woman or discussed the works as a woman’s composition.

I think you might be/have been even more disappointed if your music wasn't played because you are a woman.

[Flosshilde]

Didn't Benjamin Franklin adopt female pseudonyms?

I don't know. Did he?

And quite a few others as well.

including me

Get over your gender obsession, Flossie. It's all right, most men (and women) won't harm you!

I'm not obsessed by gender - but I think you might be, Scotty.