Simon Rattle and the new London concert hall...

[Cockney Sparrow]

I have only experienced sonic alchemy in the Barbican if I have been sitting in the Stalls - and in the centre Stalls, not the wings. From the Stalls wings, from the Circle, and from the Balcony, the sound tends to be thin and "absent". It is a nice hall, I enjoy concerts there, but sonic alchemy? Only in the centre Stalls.

For a large scale choral work, the sound in the Barbican circle is brutal and harsh - or was on the only, and last, occasion I sat there (LSO concert). (I asked for guidance on better places to sit on this message board, advice which solved the problem). Its supposed to be a modern concert hall - its not as if it was in a medieval Cathedral, where you might expect to have big variations in the quality of sound in different positions. London deserves better - and the City money wouldn't have been spent delivering housing or music education in Greater London or England (not under the present government - or any similar successor).

[Maclintick]

For a large scale choral work, the sound in the Barbican circle is brutal and harsh - or was on the only, and last, occasion I sat there (LSO concert). (I asked for guidance on better places to sit on this message board, advice which solved the problem). Its supposed to be a modern concert hall - its not as if it was in a medieval Cathedral, where you might expect to have big variations in the quality of sound in different positions. London deserves better - and the City money wouldn't have been spent delivering housing or music education in Greater London or England (not under the present government - or any similar successor).

As I intimated in an earlier post, the results in a given concert hall can sometimes have less to do with the venue, than with the performers, & whether they've adapted to the acoustic. I've attended performances in the Barbican in which the sound fits your description of "brutal and harsh" -- to give but one example, a Mahler series under a Russian maestro whose sound-world owed less to GM than to the Shostakovich of the "Leningrad" . Brutal & harsh ? - Bring it on !

[Maclintick]

I have only experienced sonic alchemy in the Barbican if I have been sitting in the Stalls - and in the centre Stalls, not the wings. From the Stalls wings, from the Circle, and from the Balcony, the sound tends to be thin and "absent". It is a nice hall, I enjoy concerts there, but sonic alchemy? Only in the centre Stalls.

For the BRSO/Jansons concert I sat in the circle, & for LGO/Chailly/Pires stage L stalls, where the piano sounded perfectly clear & well-balanced with Maestro Chailly's orchestra. No problems with the sound in both these positions -- sensational performances.

[Darkbloom]

That's very much my experience as well. Having just been booking various LSO concerts over the next few months (in the centre stalls), I note that they have hiked up the prices (by about £15 a ticket) for what I would describe as "bog-standard" repertoire and artists. Not Haitink, not even Sir S. Maybe they are saving up for the new hall...

It was noticeable how prices went up sharply at ENO after the renovation. All that gilding can't have come cheap and we had to pay for it. I used to love the old faded Coli, but now it looks like a friend who has had a bad facelift.

[subcontrabass]

Latest development: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ro-square-mile

[Cockney Sparrow]

Thanks Darkbloom.
I remain an enthusiast for the project. As I've said before, the city money they will access (Surely Sir Simon is on a promise here?) would not otherwise be spent on music education in England and Wales, so it would be some other flagship project instead (garden bridge anyone?) that would get the money otherwise. And I'm all for the priority of music education, up to a point of course, over a lot of other central govt spending.

If it doesn't go ahead then the Barbican needs alteration for large concerts, for example those using a chorus. In fact, it needs it now. The facilities backstage fully reflect the lack of consideration given to non-professional singers. For example chunks taken out of the already miserly space for what should be a proper changing room + green room - taken out for a laundry (would you believe?) and also used as a dumping ground for very large metal cases/chests/equipment. Onstage isn't much better - the arrangements for descending to the chorus benches (so no backrest) are verging on dangerous (anyone noticed that a large proportion of singers who can make themselves available, for free, to come to multiple rehearals in London etc fall into the "not as nimble as I was once" category).

It was noticeable how prices went up sharply at ENO after the renovation. All that gilding can't have come cheap and we had to pay for it. I used to love the old faded Coli, but now it looks like a friend who has had a bad facelift.

The prices may have gone up, but anyone who followed the Intermezzo blog (in the days when it was a fully functioning entree into the opera world of London, etc) would be aware of the number of occasions when tickets went on half -price (or so) sale nearer the performance date because they had insufficient takers at the price.

I started my opera going at ENO in my twenties (the Elder Pountney years) but I go far more often to ROH and Glyndebourne than ENO these days. I hope that ENO can be brought back to a viable organisation with something approximating to decent management (including artistically) but the history of the last ?10 years made sorry reading. (And this last comment is from a position where I am unaware of how things are faring at ENO at the moment - last I heard there was a surfeit of musicals (Katherine Jenkins?) in a bid for survival).

[oddoneout]

I read the article and found this -

culture mileæ in the city,

Is that grauniad-speak for milieu, or something else altogether and if so what?
In terms of the rightness or otherwise of yet another concert hall for London I find myself somewhat indifferent about the issue now. London is a different country; so long as public money is not used then the project has no real impact on life in the cultural wastelands(investment wise) of the rest of the country, in terms of 'should have been spent in X,Y or Z', as has been pointed out in previous posts.

[subcontrabass]

Design now available: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-concert-hall

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It looks like tha Tower of Babel.

[MrGongGong]

Acoustically controlled pods integrated into the hall seating provide visual porosity for education work.

I didn't realise the new series of W1A was back

Not wanting to rain on their parade BUT this

https://www.culturemile.london/centreformusic/?fbclid=IwAR0t5Wi-BHo6DmxmjTHsm3VGURkB-rL3oGaZn809d9dg-4MAneRvEgtREdY

Has some very strange images indeed
An organ made of tree trunks (nice idea but how does the sound get out?)
A mocked up image of one of the spaces at Casa Da Musica in Porto .... erm but it's London ?
A very strange looking stage setup with a piano and some gear that has a PA rigged in a way that is very strange .... with the mixing desk behind the speakers ? Erm that doesn't work for the way that human beings have their ears
A band playing (in another Porto style space) with no visible PA ...but LEADS? I thought this was all wireless hi-tech ?

The "alternative" space at the top doesn't seem to have anything sonically "alternative" if we go by the video


FFS Simon it's NOT for the "whole country" at all

aaaah well
Expensive lego model that probably won't get built anyway

[Serial_Apologist]

They showed us a "mock up" on tonight's London news on Beeb1. Apart from the 1950s-style mock up resembling official court sketches used because camera shots can't be taken, the impression of a sliced pyramid in the process of collapsing over all around tells me I'd better be doing all my visiting north of the River quickly, before it goes up, because anything that looks like that is going to introduce nausea.

[MrGongGong]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/jan/27/london-concert-hall-is-a-vanity-project

Some interesting conversations about this last week with some of the folks who are likely to play in it IF it ever gets built.

[Bryn]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...vanity-project




Some interesting conversations about this last week with some of the folks who are likely to play in it IF it ever gets built.

The piece does seem to somewhat overlook the considerable campaigning Rattle has done himself in relation to the dire state of music education in this country.

[MrGongGong]

The piece does seem to somewhat overlook the considerable campaigning Rattle has done himself in relation to the dire state of music education in this country.

Indeed he has
BUT, I find it extraordinary that people find it so remarkable for someone who is passionate about music is keen to share this and encourage young people to also participate in music.
What IS extrordinary (IMV) is the way that so many "big name" musicians (and many listeners) don't give a toss about it.

[Bryn]

Indeed he has
BUT, I find it extraordinary that people find it so remarkable for someone who is passionate about music is keen to share this and encourage young people to also participate in music.
What IS extrordinary (IMV) is the way that so many "big name" musicians (and many listeners) don't give a toss about it.

Possibly because so many of them received their musical education privately, rather than through the state education system. They literally do not see the problem. It is outside their personal experience.

I wonder how many of the financial backers of the proposed new music centre would actually consider diverting their investment into musical education provision for the wider populace? Whatever role vanity plays in the project, it could well be that, pragmatically, an associated out-reach programme would eventually be more effective than whatever proportion of the currently considered finance might have a chance of diversion as mentioned earlier.

I also wonder just how many of the wider populace might be able to afford to experience the 'perfect acoustics' of the centre, if built.