Simon Rattle and the new London concert hall...

[Beef Oven!]

... but fewer bankers

Nah, the banks are making shapes, that’s all - they’ll be back with their tails between their legs before they've even gone anywhere (although it’d be good if HSBC go, they’re bloody liability)

[Beef Oven!]

the Queen lives in Windsor, not far from Bryn, doesn't she?

That’s right, her shed is his Amazon safe-place delivery option.

[Dave2002]

London is the most dynamic city on the planet. Nearly 9 million people, 20 million visitors per year, the heart of theatre land, concert land, The Proms, the nerve centre of the UK, a GDP the size of Sweden’s, The Queen lives here, Big Ben, the most football stadiums, the richest people, some of the poorest, culturally, racially, ethnically more diverse than anywhere in the UK, over 300 languages spoken in our schools, The Notting Hill Carnival ............... a new concert hall is small fry and a no-brainer. Let’s get on with it.

20 million visitors are not all going to go to concert halls - new or old. Indeed most of them don't. Even if a new concert hall is "small fry and a no-brainer" why does it have to be built up near the Barbican/London Museum area? It's a total pain to get to.

What is a "snowflake" conductor? Is that because of the Nutcracker?

[Conchis]

Symphony Hall is not that great: some strange oddities of balance in that venue.

The Sage (which I've never visited) is supposed to be the best concert hall in the D.K. currently.

The Barbican seems to have been systematically trashed by both its major users (the RSC, who pulled out of it and now have no London base: to my mind, this was the beginning of their decline as a national company, as they'd been given the place for free by the CoCoL and now the LSO).

Nobody seemed to have a problem with it when it first opened, though, did they?

[MrGongGong]

Symphony Hall is not that great: some strange oddities of balance in that venue.

Such as?

There's so much "received wisdom" about these things and I wonder how some folks arrive at their opinions.
A while ago I had a conversation with someone who insisted that the RFH had a "lousy" acoustic because the rebar in the concrete prevented the low frequencies from resonating properly something he seems to have discovered when singing bass in a choir there.

[Richard Barrett]

Nobody seemed to have a problem with it when it first opened, though, did they?

They did actually; I can remember plenty of people (including me) saying at the time that the smallness of the stage in the concert hall would limit the repertoire that could be performed there, not just extravagant modern works like those mentioned by Rattle (whose repertoire of modern music is severely limited anyway, being restricted to a handful of tried and tested names) but anything with a chorus added to a sizeable orchestra.

[gradus]

Tennstedt/LPO seemed to cope with the RFH in Mahler 8 but perhaps Sir Simon has larger scale forces in mind.

[Richard Barrett]

Mahler 8

... to name one work that could never be performed in the Barbican Hall.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Museum of London site - I suspect becuase, as its owned by the City of London, they get the site for free, or on terms***, and with the resources available in the City of London it stands a chance of actually being built (no mean feat in the present economically uncertain climate). I don't know the details (Mr GG will put me right I have no doubt) but in my few visits to the RFH the main outcome of the refurb was a lot more catering facilities and a previously open Balcony with view of the river appropriated for paying diners. Oh, and not to be dismissed, the organ refurbishment eventually completed. (*** as with Milton Court).

Again I don't go often to Symphony Hall but I haven't yet experienced the Brutal acoustic I can find at the Barbican. (And again there is no room for large forces at the Barbican).

[MrGongGong]

... to name one work that could never be performed in the Barbican Hall.

It's relatively simple to come up with a huge list of things the LSO couldn't play in the Barbican
but that's not really a valid reason for what is being proposed.
The narrative of those who say there isn't anywhere good for orchestral music in London doesn't really stand up to "scrutony" but is very popular with some folks such as http://www.futuresymphony.org

[Richard Barrett]

It's relatively simple to come up with a huge list of things the LSO couldn't play in the Barbican
but that's not really a valid reason for what is being proposed.

Absolutely. I was just commenting on the stupid design of the Barbican Hall.

There are many things in London concert life that could be enormously improved, and at lesser cost, before building new symphony halls.

As for the Scruton fan club, my comment on "Sir" Roger's latest screed is finally out of moderation!

[ahinton]

Absolutely. I was just commenting on the stupid design of the Barbican Hall.

There are many things in London concert life that could be enormously improved, and at lesser cost, before building new symphony halls.

As for the Scruton fan club, my comment on "Sir" Roger's latest screed is finally out of moderation!

Where's that, then?(!)...

Yes, the Babycan's come in for widespread and justified criticism as an orchestral concert venue throughout its life, party for its lack of sufficient space and partly for its acoustical shortcomings. The only wholly successful performance that I ever heard there must have been well over 20 years ago in which Boulez ended a programme with what for me was the finest and most memorable performance of Erwartung that it has ever been my good fortune to hear; OK, no chorus required but the orchestra for which the composer calls is pretty large and the soprano on that occasion, Jessye Norman, was quite a large force in her own right at the time(!) - but the hall's inadequate acoustic notwithstanding, I have never heard so much subtle orchestral detail brought out of that remarkable score and Jessye Norman's performance complemented this wonderfully by bringing her considerable intellect as well as her glorious instrument to bear upon its far from easy solo part (so it was perhaps a pity that she then went on to record it with James Levine rather than with Maître Pierre).

[MrGongGong]

I don't know the details (Mr GG will put me right I have no doubt) but in my few visits to the RFH the main outcome of the refurb was a lot more catering facilities and a previously open Balcony with view of the river appropriated for paying diners. Oh, and not to be dismissed, the organ refurbishment eventually completed. (*** as with Milton Court).

They did this to the inside as well

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Describing concert hall sounds in single words:-

The RAH - quadraphonic
Symphony Hall - magnificent
Bridgewater Hall - zingy
The Sage - perfect
Victoria Hall, Hanley - Warm
The Barbican - heavy
The RFH - mediocre
The Maltings - beautiful
Philharmonic Hall, Liverpool - dry

My word for some of these (including the Phil.) are probably outdated.


I have no problem about London having a new hall, even though I think it's a stupid place to locate a capital city - tucked away in the bottom right hand corner of the United Kingdom. But are the existing halls really so bad?

[Beef Oven!]

I have no problem about London having a new hall, even though I think it's a stupid place to locate a capital city - tucked away in the bottom right hand corner of the United Kingdom. But are the existing halls really so bad?

Great observation - I’d never thought of it like that. Wouldn’t it be simply divine if London was slap bang in the middle?

Although it doesn’t always work out well. For example, Ankara is the capital of Turkey and slap bang in the middle, but Istanbul and Izmir, which are on the side, are far more dynamic.