Simon Rattle and the new London concert hall...

[johnb]

Jayne, why not get in touch with Stephen Maddock at the CBSO and let know your views of the cycle and suggest that they make it available as downloads or on CDs. SM's e-mail address is on the CBSO website.

No guarantees that your e-mail will actually get through to him or that he will respond. Having said that, I once e-mailed Clive Gillinson when he was the Managing Director of the LSO and was surprised to receive a very nice reply from him.

[Stanfordian]

I'd like Robin Ticciati at the LSO. His Schumann symphonies are way ahead of Rattle's.

Hello Alison,

Robin Ticciati’s LSO Schumann cycle is very fine. He is a fine conductor in the making who I have much enjoyed seeing in concert several times. But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the Rattle set so easily. I heard the Berliner Philharmoniker play the Schumann cycle last year in Berlin and his recordings you dismiss are quite excellent in my view. It’s all down to personal taste. I'm confident however which set will prove outsell the other worldwide and it won't be Ticciati.

[Historian]

Jayne, why not get in touch with Stephen Maddock at the CBSO and let know your views of the cycle and suggest that they make it available as downloads or on CDs. SM's e-mail address is on the CBSO website.

No guarantees that your e-mail will actually get through to him or that he will respond. Having said that, I once e-mailed Clive Gillinson when he was the Managing Director of the LSO and was surprised to receive a very nice reply from him.

As Stephen Maddock has now joined this forum you could always PM him, Jayne, if you feel that would be appropriate.

[verismissimo]

Jurowski for Berlin?

[Barbirollians]

Too late for Barenboim ?

[jayne lee wilson]

Jayne, why not get in touch with Stephen Maddock at the CBSO and let know your views of the cycle and suggest that they make it available as downloads or on CDs. SM's e-mail address is on the CBSO website.

No guarantees that your e-mail will actually get through to him or that he will respond. Having said that, I once e-mailed Clive Gillinson when he was the Managing Director of the LSO and was surprised to receive a very nice reply from him.

Sent out messages last night John, great minds etc...

Could always drop the Berlin Maestro a line... does he like Sir, or Simply Simon, d'you think? Don't think I could bring myself to write "Sir"...

OK, Must Dash...

[johnb]

Sent out messages last night John, great minds etc...

Don't think I could bring myself to write "Sir"...

OK, Must Dash...

Better not write to JE Gardiner then.

[teamsaint]

Jurowski for Berlin?

Britain needs him.

[Tony Halstead]

Britain needs him.

Does it?

[Petrushka]

Too late for Barenboim ?

The Berlin Philharmonic face a bit of a problem here. Most of the names put forward here and elsewhere are either too young, too old or firmly committed elsewhere. Barenboim will be 76 in 2018, not too old by conductor standards it's true, and he may be a possible 'caretaker' candidate until Andriss Nelsons or Gustavo Dudamel have the experience necessary to take on the job. Thielemann has been spoken of in very positive terms but believe he comes with some political baggage that may not play well abroad.

My own favoured option is Riccardo Chailly but he seems to be well established in Leipzig and has just taken on La Scala so may have ruled himself out of the running.

If Dudamel gets the job, as some reports are predicting, I will be very surprised. Good on camera and the all important Digital Concert Hall but does he have the experience in the key repertoire of the BPO? I don't think so.

As for Sir Simon, no way will he go freelance. It's just not his style having been with the CBSO and BPO for many years. When I saw him with the LSO a fortnight ago you could see the rapport he had with the players but the Barbican could prove to be a major stumbling block unless he can commit to the goal of getting the LSO a new concert hall worthy of a world class orchestra. Time will tell.

[Alison]

Does it?

Yes.

And more than the LSO needs Mark Elder

[bluestateprommer]

FWIW, IMHO, by comment #:

#1: Why SSR would go the LSO: um, perhaps because SSR and the LSO are actually mutually interested in a long-term artistic partnership? The 7 performances (6 different concert programs) that Rattle has on the LSO's 2015-2016 season schedule look like a pretty enticing sampler of what could come of a principal conductorship of the LSO with Rattle:

(a) Debussy: Pelléas et Mélisande, 9 & 10 January 2016
(b) Dutilleux/Ravel/Delage:13 January 2016
(c) Messiaen/Bruckner: 14 April 2016
(d) Haydn, The Seasons: 17 April 2016
(e) Peter Maxwell Davies / Berlioz: 26 June 2016
(f) Ives/Beethoven/Rachmaninov (season closer): 30 June 2016

Rattle has more dates lined up with the LSO next season than any other conductor, even Harding and Pappano, certainly more than Gergiev. Artistically, given the diversity of his scheduled programs with the LSO, this may be one case where the rumor mill seems to have a pretty good foundation. Even if, per Kozena, the family won't move to London, that's not necessary in this day and age. Jurowski's family lives in Berlin, Jansons nominally has a home in Saint Petersburg, and Salonen still has a house in LA. Besides, no other position is open now that is anywhere near the prestige of the Berlin Philharmonic. I'm thus with LHC (comment #4).

Comment #9: while I can understand why Conchis would mention Thielemann, IMHO, on artistic and programming grounds, Thielemann would be the worst possible choice imaginable for the next Berlin Phil chief conductor. His repertory is extremely limited and deeply conservative, indeed downright reactionary. Abbado and Rattle have done tremendous work to bring the Berlin Phil's programming into the late 20th and 21st centuries more than it had ever been. Electing Thielemann would be throwing all that away, which would be an incredibly stupid thing to do on the orchestra's part.

Besides, there would be other musical politics to think about, which are admittedly complicated to explain. You have to think back a few years, when the Berlin Phil decamped from the Salzburg Festival for a new festival in Baden-Baden. Guess which orchestra and conductor stepped into that breach in Salzburg? Yup, the Staatskapelle Dresden and Christian Thielemann. Why would Thielemann throw that away relatively fresh, and pretty prestigious, relationship with Salzburg to go to the orchestra that 'dumped' Salzburg, if I may be permitted the dating metaphor?

In terms of the 'nationalist' card that you mentioned, I honestly don't see that as coming into play. The Berlin Phil is an organization with tremendous international prestige, and is not a 'nationalist' ensemble in the parochial sense of that word. Many different nationalities are represented among the musicians, of course, not to mention their starry roster of conductors and guest artists. I honestly do not see where the Berlin civic authorities or German federal bureaucrats will exert any pressure on the musicians. The Berlin Phil likes to consider themselves a "free orchestral republic", and no outsider will simply force a marriage on them (which is much more likely here in America).

Plus, there is Stanfordian's point (#10), where Thielemann's personality is a huge stumbling block. Electing him would be a throwback to the worst aspects of Karajan's personality, in terms of the ego and treatment of musicians who might accidentally play a wrong note or two. In short, there are plenty of reasons not to elect Thielemann, which I hope the Berlin Phil musicians will consider.

Comment #13: IMHO, Yannick Nézet-Séguin would be out of the question. Among the London orchestras, YNS has a solid relationship with the LPO, not the LSO, as he was their most recent principal guest conductor prior to the appointment of Andres Orozco-Estrada. I am not specifically aware that YNS has actually even conducted the LSO at all (haven't checked), but even so, YNS already has Rotterdam and Philadelphia on his plate. YNS' current Philadelphia contract is through 2017, and while from the one time I've seen him live, I don't rate him as the greatest, he seems to be well liked enough by Philadelphia management that they will very likely extend his contact past 2017. No word on that yet, but we'll see. The one Philadelphia Inquirer critic who ran Christoph Eschenbach out of town several years back (and who has a major artistic man-crush on Vladimir Jurowski) won't have the same luck with YNS, and will have to settle for little digs in his reviews rather than a full-scale attack, because the same ammunition that was present with Eschenbach (poor artistic chemistry prior to the appointment, reports of disorganized rehearsals) isn't there now, AFAICT.

Comment #14 and others, re Sir Mark Elder: whatever one may think of him artistically, Sir Mark is contracted to the Halle through 2020. He is 67 now, and will be 73 by 2020. So he's very likely not in the running for the LSO top job in any case.

Comments #18 & 19: Ticciati's contract with the Scottish Chamber Orchestra is currently through 2018 (coincidentally enough). However, regarding the LSO, I don't think that he's conducted them enough to have enough of a basis in the relationship to be named principal conductor. Besides, he has the SCO and Glyndebourne now, which is plenty. Plus, he's only in his low 30's, and has a long career ahead of him.

Comment #24: I think Jurowski would be a very interesting choice for the Berlin Phil as well. His family lives there, as noted before, for one. The catch here is that I don't think he's conducted the Berlin Phil much, if at all, ironically enough. He's not on their docket this season, and I literally cannot recall any recent occasion when he's conducted them. So that would put him out of the running, I expect.

Comment #25: yes, Barenboim is too old. He's 73 this year. Plus, he still has his Staatsoper Berlin/Berlin Staatskapelle posts for life, and from his showing of them at the 2013 Proms Ring, his work with that orchestra is quite something on its own.

Comment #30: Dudamel does seem to be the potential wild card here, as Petrushka noted. His LA contract is up in 2019, which will be 10 years as music director in LA. "El Dude" might be up for a change, and he certainly has had time to build up his repertoire with both LA and the Simon Bolivar orchestras, to address Petrushka's concern. He would have to give up LA for sure if the Berliners choose him, IMHO. His leaving would make the LA management very unhappy. I'm not so sure that he's quite ready for Berlin, but I can easily see Dudamel following Salonen once again in a few years, with the Philharmonia.

BTW, for JLW: in a way, you should care where Simon Rattle goes, especially if it's to the LSO. The reason is because the UK (not to mention the US) needs conductors who will fight hard for classical music in the current A&E marketplace, for attention and a place at the table. Whatever one may think of Rattle as an interpreter, as an advocate for classical music in the larger society having an important place, it's hard to find anyone more willing to give of himself than Rattle. We need more conductor advocates like him, willing to reach out.

PS: Not that this post needs to be longer, but one name just occurred to me who seems to be very much under the radar, and who is free of full-time posts, but his age now (62) and by 2018 (66) might be factors against, although he could serve a decade or so as a 'transitional' figure before one of the younger tyros come in. But he has a strong relationship with the Berlin Phil and now could be his time. I refer to Semyon Bychkov.

[gurnemanz]

Thanks, bluestate, for that excellent tour d'horizon. The thoughts on Thielemann concur with the impression I have formed. (He now seems to have said that Pegida should be listened to). Re Bychkov, I was reminded that he was a Karajan favourite and found this paragraph in an article in the NY Times from 1987 on Karajan's succession.

"Still, there is speculation in the music world about possible candidates. The top choices include Semyon Bychkov, a 34-year-old Soviet-born conductor, and Carlo Maria Giulini, a 73-year-old, semi-retired Italian conductor."

Giulini, like Barenboim now, was 73 and wasn't appointed.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Yes thanks Bluestate. A point well made that Rattle is willing to spend energy on defending the arts. So its likely he wouldn't just be jetting in and out for performances and rehearsals......

And as I read through your valuable contribution, I too was thinking "What about Bychkov" - surely a conductor worthy of consideration, a very impressive, to me. musician. I think he has no music director posts? - preferring to work on pieces that he is moved to perform but without the further responsibilities of a MD - admin, an orchestra's overall programme etc.

Don't know where I heard it, but is there some substance to the rumour that Karajan had named him as a successor, and given the disposition of the BPO at that time, it blighted his chances..... Here's hoping that, time having moved on, he is willing and in the running!

[LHC]

Yes thanks Bluestate. A point well made that Rattle is willing to spend energy on defending the arts. So its likely he wouldn't just be jetting in and out for performances and rehearsals......

And as I read through your valuable contribution, I too was thinking "What about Bychkov" - surely a conductor worthy of consideration, a very impressive, to me. musician. I think he has no music director posts? - preferring to work on pieces that he is moved to perform but without the further responsibilities of a MD - admin, an orchestra's overall programme etc.

Don't know where I heard it, but is there some substance to the rumour that Karajan had named him as a successor, and given the disposition of the BPO at that time, it blighted his chances..... Here's hoping that, time having moved on, he is willing and in the running!

Bychkov has previously turned down other approaches to become an MD. I think he has said he prefers the freedom to work on the pieces he enjoys with the orchestras he has a good relationship with, as you say. In addition to not wanting the additional responsibilities of an MD, I think he has also said in interview that it would change the nature of his relationship with an orchestra and its players and that he didn't want this. Of course, if it was the BPO asking the question, that might be enough to change his mind.