Simon Rattle and the new London concert hall...

[Tony Halstead]

I used to dread playing in the RFH when I played ( horn) with the LSO and then subsequently with the ECO. However I do remember that when Leopold Stokowski conducted there, he used to insist ( wily old bird) that the wooden doors hiding the organ from view were CLOSED. Of course this always caused great consternation with the RFH 'backstage staff' who then had to - oh dear - get off their backsides and 'do something' .... Anyway, the result of having the 'organ doors' shut was that there was a 'reflective panel' behind the orchestra instead of the hundreds of organ pipes with their 'sound absorbant' properties. In those 'Stokie' concerts the sound 'on stage' was much more 'alive' and immediate.

[CGR]

They could try (if you don't like the RFH) Kings Place, Wigmore, Cadogan, Milton Court for a start .....

We have spent many enjoyable evenings at The Wigmore Hall.

Unfortunately now we've moved out of town so our concert going has declined. The unreliable railways make it impossible to book in advance without planning an overnight stay in a hotel as well. And then it becomes a choice between opera, chamber music, or Ronnie Scott's or the 606 down in Chelsea.

[Alain Maréchal]

I used to dread playing in the RFH when I played ( horn) with the LSO and then subsequently with the ECO. However I do remember that when Leopold Stokowski conducted there, he used to insist ( wily old bird) that the wooden doors hiding the organ from view were CLOSED. Of course this always caused great consternation with the RFH 'backstage staff' who then had to - oh dear - get off their backsides and 'do something' .... Anyway, the result of having the 'organ doors' shut was that there was a 'reflective panel' behind the orchestra instead of the hundreds of organ pipes with their 'sound absorbant' properties. In those 'Stokie' concerts the sound 'on stage' was much more 'alive' and immediate.

I was advised many years ago that the real concern was the fact that enclosing the organ led to an increase in humidity and temperature which caused it to need retuning. This may have been an excuse. It causes no problems in Lyon; the modern hall houses one of the most historic and largest Cavaille-Coll machines in France (the former Trocadero monster), and unless it is required the organ is always hidden by panels, causing no apparent problems for the regular recitals.

[Pulcinella]

I was advised many years ago that the real concern was the fact that enclosing the organ led to an increase in humidity and temperature which caused it to need retuning. This may have been an excuse. It causes no problems in Lyon; the modern hall houses one of the most historic and largest Cavaille-Coll machines in France (the former Trocadero monster), and unless it is required the organ is always hidden by panels, causing no apparent problems for the regular recitals.

Aren't French organs by tradition ordinarily out of tune anyway?
Think of the Poulenc Organ concerto recording with Duruflé as the soloist.

[Alain Maréchal]

Aren't French organs by tradition ordinarily out of tune anyway?
Think of the Poulenc Organ concerto recording with Duruflé as the soloist.

Well, no they're not, neither by tradition, nor ordinarily. Sometimes they are out of tune with an orchestra, but usually are at unity within themselves.
In the case of the Poulenc recording, there were several problems. (I was a regular attender at St-Etienne-du-Mont in the late sixties and knew it well). The organ was in need of an overhaul, the orchestra had difficulties tuning to it, and there was one particular solo stop that was definitely out of tune. (We need somebody from the Organ thread to join in with their technical knowledge). It should have been recorded elsewhere, but Duruflé had helped Poulenc with the registrations, had given the first performance, and he was at home there.

[Pulcinella]

Well, no they're not, neither by tradition, nor ordinarily. Sometimes they are out of tune with an orchestra, but usually are at unity within themselves.
In the case of the Poulenc recording, there were several problems. (I was a regular attender at St-Etienne-du-Mont in the late sixties and knew it well). The organ was in need of an overhaul, the orchestra had difficulties tuning to it, and there was one particular solo stop that was definitely out of tune. (We need somebody from the Organ thread to join in with their technical knowledge). It should have been recorded elsewhere, but Duruflé had helped Poulenc with the registrations, had given the first performance, and he was at home there.

Thanks for that very interesting background information, Alain.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thanks for that very interesting background information, Alain.

[subcontrabass]

New development: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-back-on-track

[BBMmk2]

That'll please Rattle!

[Dave2002]

Not sure that the money really works out. The Grauniad seems to have reverted to typos etc.

Inflation etc. and cost overruns seem to be de rigueur.

"Hamburg’s dazzling Elbphilharmonie opened this week seven years late and eye-spinningly over budget. Its cost was originally estimated at €77m (£67m). It finally cost €789m."

According to the Grauniad, some of the shortfall from the UK government's withdrawal of funding is to be made up from elsewhere, but although the figures are in £millions - they are small compared with the overall projected cost (under £3 million quoted for the gap to be made up by the City of London Corporation).

[subcontrabass]

Not sure that the money really works out. The Grauniad seems to have reverted to typos etc.

Inflation etc. and cost overruns seem to be de rigeur.

"Hamburg’s dazzling Elbphilharmonie opened this week seven years late and eye-spinningly over budget. Its cost was originally estimated at €77m (£67m). It finally cost €789m."

According to the Grauniad, some of the shortfall from the UK government's withdrawal of funding is to be made up from elsewhere, but although the figures are in £millions - they are small compared with the overall projected cost (under £3 million quoted for the gap to be made up by the City of London Corporation).

The money promised at this stage by the City of London Corporation is for completing the making of the business case for the development, not for the actual construction.

[Sir Velo]

The Grauniad seems to have reverted to typos etc.

cost overruns seem to be de rigeur.

Was that one of the Guardian's typos?

[Dave2002]

No - it was one of mine! Thanks.

[Dave2002]

The money promised at this stage by the City of London Corporation is for completing the making of the business case for the development, not for the actual construction.

That makes more sense - though the possible cost overruns are enormous - as in Hamburg. Much though I, and I hope many here, like classical music, is it really justified to spend that much?

[Dave2002]

Well, no they're not, neither by tradition, nor ordinarily. Sometimes they are out of tune with an orchestra, but usually are at unity within themselves.
In the case of the Poulenc recording, there were several problems. (I was a regular attender at St-Etienne-du-Mont in the late sixties and knew it well). The organ was in need of an overhaul, the orchestra had difficulties tuning to it, and there was one particular solo stop that was definitely out of tune. (We need somebody from the Organ thread to join in with their technical knowledge). It should have been recorded elsewhere, but Duruflé had helped Poulenc with the registrations, had given the first performance, and he was at home there.

There was a rather stunning piece of organ music played on the St Omer organ recently on R3. Actually it was the sound of the organ which was impressive - I can't remember the piece of music.

There's a quite odd virtual organ project which discusses the St Omer organ - http://www.sonusparadisi.cz/en/organ...ion/st-om.html

Also there's this http://orguesfrance.com/StOmerCathedrale.html
this http://mander-organs-forum.invisionz...-organ-france/
and finally this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ybOLzC9_Cc