18th Century Symphonists

[Dave2002]

From the title you can see that this includes Haydn, Mozart, though not Beethoven who wrote his first published symphonies around 1801-2.
This thread is primarily intended for discussion about other composers, such as members of the Mannheim School. There are quite a number of composers from this period whose work is hardly known except to specialists.

A few are:

Franz Ignaz Beck
Christian Cannabich
Ignaz Holzbauer
Leopold Kozeluch
Ignaz Pleyel [one of Haydn's favourite pupils]
Franz Xaver Richter
Johann Stamitz
Carl Stamitz
Johann Baptist Wanhal (sometimes Vanhal)
Georg Joseph Vogler

Composers who lived in the 18th Century, but who may have written symphonic works in the 19th Century include Franz Danzi and Anton Reicha, besides Beethoven, of course.

Look hard in the CD catalogues and you may find that actually there are quite a lot of recordings.

For starters:

Vogler, Symphony in D minor "Parisier", Mattias Bamert, London Mozart Players, Chandos

Cannabich, Symphony 22 in C
Symphony 57 in E flat
Symphony in A
Mattias Bamert, London Mozart Players, Chandos

Richter Symphony 43 in F minor
Symphony 52 in D
Symphony 82 in E minor
Symphony 69 in A
Mattias Bamert, London Mozart Players, Chandos

Grandes Symphonies - 2 sets 1-6, 7-12, Hakkinen, Helsinki Baroque Orchestra, Naxos [string orchestra]

Holzbauer Symphony Op 4, No 3 in E flat, The Mannheim School, Camerata Bern, Archiv

Kozeluch Symphony in D, London Mozart Players, Bamert, Chandos

Some rather decent stuff in there, though might take a day or two to "get into" the style. Over to you.

[MickyD]

Thanks for starting this, Dave. I find that a particularly good source of such unfamiliar composers can be found in the enormous CPO catalogue...I have discovered some real finds there.

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/theme/-/tname/labelshop_cpo_komponistenverzeichnis?expid=1198312_2866&expfull=1

But be careful...the temptations are great!

[Pabmusic]

I'm particularly fond of Dittersdorf.

Not only was he quite original (opening a symphony with a slow movement, a march or a minuet, or a beautiful oboe solo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsmGZkWid98)

but he also had a sense of humour. His name was Carl Ditters, but he adopted 'von Dittersdorf' when he was enobled, even though he'd never been there. It's as if Roy Hudd were to become Lord Hudd of Huddersfield. You've just got to like him...

[kea]

There are a few symphonies by J Stamitz, Sammartini, JM Kraus and Clementi that are well worth listening to. Also CPE Bach I suppose, though if you want to hear his best work you should look for the solo keyboard stuff.

I have not heard all of the Bamert 'Contemporaries of Mozart' series on Chandos, but it might be a good place to start for those who are curious.

[Tony Halstead]

From the title you can see that this includes Haydn, Mozart, though not Beethoven who wrote his first published symphonies around 1801-2.
This thread is primarily intended for discussion about other composers, such as members of the Mannheim School. There are quite a number of composers from this period whose work is hardly known except to specialists.

A few are:

Franz Ignaz Beck
Christian Cannabich
Ignaz Holzbauer
Leopold Kozeluch
Ignaz Pleyel [one of Haydn's favourite pupils]
Franz Xaver Richter
Johann Stamitz
Carl Stamitz
Johann Baptist Wanhal (sometimes Vanhal)
Georg Joseph Vogler

Composers who lived in the 18th Century, but who may have written symphonic works in the 19th Century include Franz Danzi and Anton Reicha, besides Beethoven, of course.

Look hard in the CD catalogues and you may find that actually there are quite a lot of recordings.

For starters:

Vogler, Symphony in D minor "Parisier", Mattias Bamert, London Mozart Players, Chandos

Cannabich, Symphony 22 in C
Symphony 57 in E flat
Symphony in A
Mattias Bamert, London Mozart Players, Chandos

Richter Symphony 43 in F minor
Symphony 52 in D
Symphony 82 in E minor
Symphony 69 in A
Mattias Bamert, London Mozart Players, Chandos

Grandes Symphonies - 2 sets 1-6, 7-12, Hakkinen, Helsinki Baroque Orchestra, Naxos [string orchestra]

Holzbauer Symphony Op 4, No 3 in E flat, The Mannheim School, Camerata Bern, Archiv

Kozeluch Symphony in D, London Mozart Players, Bamert, Chandos

Some rather decent stuff in there, though might take a day or two to "get into" the style. Over to you.

You seem to have omitted the symphonist - and opera composer - who greatly influenced Mozart, maybe more than any other : JOHANN CHRISTIAN BACH.

[MickyD]

You seem to have omitted the symphonist - and opera composer - who greatly influenced Mozart, maybe more than any other : JOHANN CHRISTIAN BACH.

And who, by a happy concidence, is extremely well served by the excellent Hanover Band and Anthony Halstead on the aforementioned CPO label!

[Beef Oven!]

This year I started to listen to a bit more earlier music than my normal preference. As part of that, I bought a Naxos CD of Franz Ignaz Beck and Francois Joseph Gossec Sinfonias. Northern Chamber Orchestra, Nicholas Ward.

Four of the five symphonies are in three movements and they are delightful tasters of where H&M would take the symphony format, next.

I am not overly familiar with the works, having only played the CD 6 or 7 times (clearly I'm a slow learner!), but I would say that Beck is the stronger of the two symphonists.

[MickyD]

I agree, Beefy. There are three other good discs of Beck by the period group La Stagione, if you want to investigate further.

[teamsaint]

I'm particularly fond of Dittersdorf.

Not only was he quite original (opening a symphony with a slow movement, a march or a minuet, or a beautiful oboe solo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsmGZkWid98)

but he also had a sense of humour. His name was Carl Ditters, but he adopted 'von Dittersdorf' when he was enobled, even though he'd never been there. It's as if Roy Hudd were to become Lord Hudd of Huddersfield. You've just got to like him...

talking my language there Pabs. Great (adapted )name, and that symphony is really lovely. Just had a little spend on the back of that...

[kea]

I agree, Beefy. There are three other good discs of Beck by the period group La Stagione, if you want to investigate further.

I think Naxos did a whole series of Beck symphonies... I've got another disc entirely devoted to them. Found them solidly written, but lacking the emotional charge I found in a few of the Kraus, Vanhal and Boccherini symphonies of the same period. (But then I found them in turn somewhat less interesting than the early Haydn symphonies. :| )

Among obscure composers I seem to spend more time in the Baroque/Classical borderland (J Stamitz, Sammartini etc) and the Classical/Romantic borderland (Ries, Hummel etc). For some reason those transitional periods seem to appeal to me more than periods when the power of style itself is strong enough to be a stimulus for creative activity, as through most of the high-Classic and high-Romantic eras.

[Dave2002]

You seem to have omitted the symphonist - and opera composer - who greatly influenced Mozart, maybe more than any other : JOHANN CHRISTIAN BACH.

Thanks. I was trying to keep the Bachs out of it to focus on some of the others. CPE and WF also wrote works which are at least titled symphonies - or sinfonias.

Also thanks for mentioning the Hanover Band - I found their web page - with details of concerts. Might try the Messiah on December 6 - http://www.thehanoverband.com/hanover-02.php

There is also a list of CDs on the web page. One is of 18th Century British symphonies. http://www.mvdaily.com/articles/2001/10/cdgau216.htm

[Lion-of-Vienna]

Three CDs of the symphonies of Ignaz Beck are available on Naxos. A fourth is to be issued in December completing the symphony sets Op.1, 3 and 4. That will just leave the Op.2 set to be recorded.

Beck was a member of the Mannheim school that Mozart admired so much. Concerto Koln have produced excellent recordings of many symphonies by these composers. Try Johann Stamitz, Carl Stamitz, Danzi and Cannabich as representative samples.

Another favourite symphonist of mine is J.M. Kraus "The Swedish Mozart". His dates are almost identical to Mozart's, 1756-1792. There are 12 interesting symphonies by Kraus recorded by Naxos that are well worth listening to including one in C sharp minor, a key that not even Haydn dared to attempt in a symphony.

Finally, don't forget Haydn's younger brother Michael. Whilst his 30-something symphonies cannot match the interest or variety of Joseph's they are nevertheless always good to listen to and even Mozart was not ashamed to claim one of them as his own when the need arose in Linz in 1783 (see Symphony No.37 in G K444).

[MickyD]

This is a terrific collection by Concerto Koln, including my No.1 favourite disc of theirs, Vanhal:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concerto-DallAbaco-Locatelli-Vanhal-Kozeluch/dp/B000V07IV8/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1415641561&sr=1-1&keywords=concerto+koln

Only £16 for six discs, a steal!

And that ASV Hanover Band disc of British symphonies is absolutely delightful, Dave

[Dave2002]

Another favourite symphonist of mine is J.M. Kraus "The Swedish Mozart". His dates are almost identical to Mozart's, 1756-1792. There are 12 interesting symphonies by Kraus recorded by Naxos that are well worth listening to including one in C sharp minor, a key that not even Haydn dared to attempt in a symphony.

Another composer with a Swedish connection was Johan Helmich Roman, though he is often flagged up as a baroque composer. He did write sinfonias though.

[MickyD]

And don't miss the cracking two CDs of Kraus recorded for Capriccio some years ago by Concerto Koln.