Glazunov Symphonies

[Dave2002]

Took me a while to get to like the symphonies I must say, but I was encouraged by a former member - who left when some of us migrated here. He indeed was recommending the Polyansky set at that time.

Even allowing for the sound quality, you might look for the very cheap download of Fedoseyev's renditions when you've played through your Brilliant set a few times, or buy the CDs. Actually don't bother, I don't think the downloads are particularly cheap right now, but Otaka's BIS set is £4.99 on iTunes at present - or £5.29 from Amazon.

Sometimes it takes time to get to know, and perhaps love, some works. Currently I'm struggling through the symphonies of Franz Xaver Richter, which are pleasant enough - but I think it's going to take me a few more traversals to know one from another.

It's easy to forget that, even with Beethoven, Haydn or Mozart. How many can instantly recognise any arbitrarily selected string quartet by those masters?

[Cockney Sparrow]

, but Otaka's BIS set is £4.99 on iTunes at present - or £5.29 from Amazon.

Or $20 for FLAC lossless from eclassical -

http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis/glazunov-the-complete-symphonies-1.html

[Dave2002]

Or $20 for FLAC lossless from eclassical -
http://www.eclassical.com/labels/bis...phonies-1.html

The mp3 (Amazon) is actually very good, and almost indistinguishable from the CDs. I ended up getting both.

If quality is the issue, then perhaps the CDs are best - and would come with the booklets etc. If booklets no concern, then FLAC would be OK.

The main point was to show that there's a very cheap way of getting a good set, for anyone who hasn't got these already.

[Dave2002]

Even cheaper for some symphonies, if still works - http://nealshistorical.wordpress.com...nov-balakirev/

[MickyD]

Took me a while to get to like the symphonies I must say, but I was encouraged by a former member - who left when some of us migrated here. He indeed was recommending the Polyansky set at that time.

Even allowing for the sound quality, you might look for the very cheap download of Fedoseyev's renditions when you've played through your Brilliant set a few times, or buy the CDs. Actually don't bother, I don't think the downloads are particularly cheap right now, but Otaka's BIS set is £4.99 on iTunes at present - or £5.29 from Amazon.

Sometimes it takes time to get to know, and perhaps love, some works. Currently I'm struggling through the symphonies of Franz Xaver Richter, which are pleasant enough - but I think it's going to take me a few more traversals to know one from another.

It's easy to forget that, even with Beethoven, Haydn or Mozart. How many can instantly recognise any arbitrarily selected string quartet by those masters?

Are those the Richter symphonies that came out on Naxos, Dave? I have them and am enjoying the performances.

[Dave2002]

Are those the Richter symphonies that came out on Naxos, Dave? I have them and am enjoying the performances.

Indeed. Do you fancy starting a thread on 18th Century symphonists? Set 1 is at Amazon - Set 2 is more difficult - but Crotchet and MDT have it. There's also this from Bamert - http://open.spotify.com/track/6KFrmumxPFDgnuBxo5OOVb which has wind instruments as well. To my surprise (a) Bamert is Swiss, and (b) has recorded a lot of unusual music. This 5 CD set seems possibly good value - might check out the pieces first though - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Contemporari...5552653&sr=1-5

Now back to Glazunov. Concerto Ballata anyone?

[MickyD]

I would love to exchange news and views on 18th century symphonists, Dave, but I fear I might never stop! The likes of Naxos are very good at seeking out rare 18th century repertoire. My only problem with that worthy 'Contemporaries of Mozart' series on Chandos was that it was, for me, a missed opportunity not to use a period instrument group. Though I gather that the LMP performances are good.

[Dave2002]

Even cheaper for some symphonies, if still works - http://nealshistorical.wordpress.com...nov-balakirev/

I don't think the links to the files do still work. However, Golovanov's recording of the Sixth symphony is here - http://open.spotify.com/track/7HAhpawzxlb3MCa95obFBR

It also turns out that the 5th and 7th are also now available on Spotify - http://open.spotify.com/track/2xErjA9Tw9BqXdnsAfcDrX

Probably not versions to listen to if you've never heard these symphonies before. For example, the beauty of the opening of the Seventh is rather lost by some sour playing and intonation. The mono recording doesn't help either. Even in the 1950s it was possible to make much better recordings than these. However, in places Golovanov has dynamism which really pushes things forward. Listen to these versions if you already know the works, otherwise best to look elsewhere.

[richardfinegold]

Is that this set? What's the sound quality like?

In 2009 I went on holiday with an MP3 player loaded up with the Fedoseyv versions of Glazunov's Symphonies 1-8, plus a few additional curiosities. The thing that struck me most at the time was the dreadful quality of the recording of number 5 - which may have been due to tape deterioration. I did find them dull and unmemorable at first. For some reason I persevered, and after about 5 run throughs I started to enjoy these. The first 3 are similar - lightish and a bit like Borodin as suggested. Number 4 has a beautiful cor anglais solo at the opening - it may get a bit bombastic towards the finale though. Number 5 is the one many people have claimed to like - the scherzo is brilliant. Number 6 is a bit heavier in feel, while number 7 (nicknamed the Pastoral) has a lovely opening movement. Number 8 seems to me to have a very gloomy feel, but it's also quite dramatic.

The slow movements tend to be rather lovely, though perhaps also too long. Some people don't mind that! Some of the faster movements are light and brilliant. Some of the finales tend to degenerate into banality.

Number 9 is not in the set, but can be obtained in a version conducted by Serebrier.

I think Petrenko scheduled one of the symphonies in a season recently. It's a great shame that these works are not performed in the UK, and the same goes for some other works, by composers such as Kalinnikov, Gretchaninov, Taneyev and Miaskovsky. Jurowski did Miaskovsky 6 a few years ago, but that was just one "rare" symphonic work over several whole seasons. On the whole concerts are just so terribly conservative. Even Tchaikovsky only gets 4-6 played regularly. It's just possible to hear 1-3 about once a year now.

Others may disagree, but I think we could lose a few Mahler sessions to allow more of these works an airing.

Why is it that one always encounters gratuitous swipes at Mahler when someone wants to extoll another Composer that they feel is under represented in the Classical Music pantheon?
Glazonouv's charms are very limited. I usually can't make it to the end of a given Symphony before ennui sets in. His music doesn't grow on me with further exposure, either. Imo, increased listening to his music doesn't reward the effort. As Dorothy Parker famously said, "there is no 'there' there." It is all on the surface. Feel free to listen to him, but why denigrate great food to extoll the virtues of Beef Jerky?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My own experience of Glazunov is very similar to that of rfg's: I find this Music a pleasant, tuneful ear-tickling with glittering orchestral colour, but with such poor handling of structure and proportion that it very quickly outstays its welcome. Repeated listenings haven't endeared them to me; if anything, the opposite, alas.

But I undersood the "these works" in Dave's final sentence to refer to all the composers in his penultimate sentence, not just Glaunov (the Thread title makes this ambiguous). I know very little of many of this repertoire, but cerainly Myaskovky wrote works that should be regularly performed. At the expense of Mahler? Ain't gonna happen - performers want to continue exploring the near-infinite challenges and discoveries that Mahler's work offers, and audiences flock to hear them (as contrasted with the only Live performance of the Tchaikovsky First Symphony I've attended, where the hall was merely a third full - and this is Tchaikovsky!); it would be financial suicide for an orchestra to programme Myakovsky at Mahler's expense.

It is, however, repertoire that the BBC orchestras (with their different funding arrangement) might feel obliged to explore more regularly.

[MickyD]

I don't think Dave was making 'gratuitous swipes at Mahler', just a plea for the repertoire one hears to be expanded in order for us to hear other lesser-known pieces.

I feel the same way about my own particular love of 18th century music - I will never tire of the Brandenburg Concertos etc, but love it when baroque groups give us unfamiliar repertoire from the same period.

[Dave2002]

Why is it that one always encounters gratuitous swipes at Mahler when someone wants to extoll another Composer that they feel is under represented in the Classical Music pantheon?
Glazonouv's charms are very limited. I usually can't make it to the end of a given Symphony before ennui sets in. His music doesn't grow on me with further exposure, either. Imo, increased listening to his music doesn't reward the effort. As Dorothy Parker famously said, "there is no 'there' there." It is all on the surface. Feel free to listen to him, but why denigrate great food to extoll the virtues of Beef Jerky?

Sorry Richard, I'm not trying to take a gratuitous swipe at Mahler, but I find that nowadays when I'm offered a chance to hear many works, including many by Mahler, I immediately imagine what I'm going to hear, and then I mentally decide that I'm not going to spend the next hour or so listening to them. In London, near where I live, there are many chances to hear works by Mahler, and I do not feel obliged to go to all of the concerts on offer. The same is now beginning to be true also of Shostakovich - I've now heard most of his symphonies in live performances, and some of them many times. Even my friend who is fanatical about Shostakovich no longer goes to all of them.

I also agree with you about Glazunov - he's not a great composer like Mahler, but that doesn't mean his works aren't worth hearing. Some of them do actually get better with more familiarity - at least up to a point.

What I'm asking for is just more attention to some of these "other" composers. As I mentioned in my first post, even Tchaikovsky, whose works are seemingly performed endlessly, is not treated well, as it's very hard to hear performances of the first three symphonies, but it's hard to avoid 4-6 most months of the year in many cities around the UK.

In the last year or two there have even been comments about the reduction in outings of works by Mozart and Haydn.

Why do we never - well hardly ever - hear live performances of symphonies by composers such as Bax, Rubbra, Myaskovsky, Kalinnikov, Gretchaninov etc., but can only listen to them on CDs or on the occasional recorded radio broadcast? At least the BBC does us favours sometimes - as with the Martinu symphonies which were going the rounds a few years ago. I don't like them all, but at least they were performed, though now the performances have been recorded perhaps they won't ever be performed again!

I'm not suggesting that Mahler symphonies are not performed, but just that some of the time and effort devoted to his works could be diverted to other composers. It's not even the case that all the performances are good.

[richardfinegold]

Sorry Richard, I'm not trying to take a gratuitous swipe at Mahler, but I find that nowadays when I'm offered a chance to hear many works, including many by Mahler, I immediately imagine what I'm going to hear, and then I mentally decide that I'm not going to spend the next hour or so listening to them. In London, near where I live, there are many chances to hear works by Mahler, and I do not feel obliged to go to all of the concerts on offer. The same is now beginning to be true also of Shostakovich - I've now heard most of his symphonies in live performances, and some of them many times. Even my friend who is fanatical about Shostakovich no longer goes to all of them.

I also agree with you about Glazunov - he's not a great composer like Mahler, but that doesn't mean his works aren't worth hearing. Some of them do actually get better with more familiarity - at least up to a point.

What I'm asking for is just more attention to some of these "other" composers. As I mentioned in my first post, even Tchaikovsky, whose works are seemingly performed endlessly, is not treated well, as it's very hard to hear performances of the first three symphonies, but it's hard to avoid 4-6 most months of the year in many cities around the UK.

In the last year or two there have even been comments about the reduction in outings of works by Mozart and Haydn.

Why do we never - well hardly ever - hear live performances of symphonies by composers such as Bax, Rubbra, Myaskovsky, Kalinnikov, Gretchaninov etc., but can only listen to them on CDs or on the occasional recorded radio broadcast? At least the BBC does us favours sometimes - as with the Martinu symphonies which were going the rounds a few years ago. I don't like them all, but at least they were performed, though now the performances have been recorded perhaps they won't ever be performed again!

I'm not suggesting that Mahler symphonies are not performed, but just that some of the time and effort devoted to his works could be diverted to other composers. It's not even the case that all the performances are good.

I would much more willingly sit through a lengthy Mahler Symphony than any half hour musical trinket by Glauzonov. I would be very concerned about nodding off and snoring in the Concert Hall and being banished for life during any of Gs music. Imo, his best service as a Composer was helping realize unfinished works by Borodin (and Moussorgsky? I can't remember if he had a role there as well). The stories about G attributed to Shostakovich in Testimony are also fascinating reading and he must have had a lot of Administrative abilities to keep a Conservatorie going, especially through the Russian Revolution and Civil War. And did he really undermine Rachmaninov by Conducting the premiere of his First Symphony while dead drunk?
G had an interesting life, but his Music is small Vodka. I for one would've miss a note of it, and I did try at one time to embrace it. Ferney's opinion is mine exactly.
Is Mahler over performed? Different question. Perhaps it is a just payback for the decades of neglect that his music endured.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Why do we never - well hardly ever - hear live performances of symphonies by composers such as Bax, Rubbra, Myaskovsky, Kalinnikov, Gretchaninov etc., but can only listen to them on CDs or on the occasional recorded radio broadcast?

Because too few performers find sufficient interest in the works to warrent the time required to rehearse and perform them adequately, and, when they hardly ever do so, audience numbers dwindle - if the Philharmonia playing the First Symphony by Tchaikovsky cannot even half-fill a concert hall, then what chance a less well-known and trusted composer? The only permanent professional orchestras in the UK who can afford such risks are those of the BBC.

I'm not suggesting that Mahler symphonies are not performed, but just that some of the time and effort devoted to his works could be diverted to other composers. It's not even the case that all the performances are good.

True - as it is of Brahms and Beethoven, too. But performers (even poor ones) find more in these works than they do in Brian or Brianchaninov or even Roussel or Magnard. And as long as audiences continue to avoid attending concerts including these works, and as long as orchestras depend on ticket sales, it's going to be Mahler, Brahms, Beethoven, Shostakovich and the Tchaikovsky troika in the concert halls.

[Dave2002]

I would much more willingly sit through a lengthy Mahler Symphony than any half hour musical trinket by Glauzonov. I would be very concerned about nodding off and snoring in the Concert Hall and being banished for life during any of Gs music. Imo, his best service as a Composer was helping realize unfinished works by Borodin (and Moussorgsky? I can't remember if he had a role there as well). The stories about G attributed to Shostakovich in Testimony are also fascinating reading and he must have had a lot of Administrative abilities to keep a Conservatorie going, especially through the Russian Revolution and Civil War. And did he really undermine Rachmaninov by Conducting the premiere of his First Symphony while dead drunk?
G had an interesting life, but his Music is small Vodka. I for one would've miss a note of it, and I did try at one time to embrace it. Ferney's opinion is mine exactly.
Is Mahler over performed? Different question. Perhaps it is a just payback for the decades of neglect that his music endured.

I note the drink references. I liked the story about G drinking vodka through a tube during classes!

Is the Chicago scene good for music? It occurs to me that part of my concern relates to London - where there are often performances from one of the resident orchestras - Philharmonia, LSO, LPO, RPO, BBC SO - plus a few other smaller orchestras. Chicago has, IMO, a very good orchestra, but perhaps that is the only one which is performing regularly in your area. Also, in the UK there are other reachable cities - where there are sometimes very good performances - though generally people in the London area would probably not travel to Birmingham or Bournemouth unless there was something really special, on but for works such as Mahler 8 that would certainly be worthwhile. In the USA you may have further to travel and/or a more awkward journey in order to hear another orchestra - say NY for the NYPO.

OTOH, in the UK, at the furthest reaches, people might find it a challenge even to hear Beethoven's 5 once or twice a year - I'm thinking of parts of Scotland, Wales, and the extreme SW. My earlier comments perhaps have to be taken with this in mind. In my younger days I would travel between cities to hear Mahler symphonies, and indeed I did hear Barbirolli in Manchester on one of my days out. I also heard an early performance of Mahler's 8th in Liverpool - at a time when Mahler was rarely performed, and it was hard to hear the 8th because of the cost and scale of putting it on.

Maybe Ivan Fischer is right - and concerts and orchestras will die out - though I hope not. Some genres of music, such as opera, actually seem to be gaining in popularity.