"Ten Pieces"

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'm sure this worked for you (and many of the folks who post here)
BUT for most people, and as an educational strategy this simply doesn't work and never did

Sorry, MrGG, but it does work, though I don't pretend it's easy.

[MrGongGong]

Sorry, MrGG, but it does work, though I don't pretend it's easy.

The reason why I don't think it works is that (with a few exceptions) there isn't a culture of listening.
There also isn't a contextual link between listening to orchestral music (for example) in a classroom and listening to it in a concert hall.
The problem also I think is that there are precious few teachers (like yourself i'm sure ) with the passion and enthusiasm to communicate and share with the children they work with.

I'm 50, the "huge radiogram" approach was what we were given, I rarely find anyone my age (apart from my musician colleagues) who still listen to the music we were subjected to, EVEN though some of it was wonderful.

[antongould]

TV is indeed a visual medium. My concern is not with the images, but with the reinforcement of the idea that music is something in the background.
Ten Pieces, but you can't actually hear them properly.

And as long as we apologise for classical music, it will continue to be marginalised.

Puzzled by what you mean by "....can't hear them properly....." just listening now and I can hear the music fine....

As a grandfather of primary school children I think this is more or less the way it has to be presented. I don't think D O-N introducing each piece with a little anecdote will do the trick.

A lot IMVHO depends on how and when the schools show the film. To fill in the last hour before home time on a Friday is never going to work....if my own memories didn't tell me that picking up Fred from school certainly confirms it. The much discussed attention span is at it very shortest. If I remember I shall ask Fred his view on the film.

[antongould]

........
I did not particularly take to the introductions by "slebs" (none of whom I recognised)

.......

OG

OG I cannot believe that you don't watch "Strictly"!!!!!!

[french frank]

This is true also, but it is perpetuated by so many teachers from Day 1.

Many of whom probably aren't very keen on it themselves. Even universities have teachers who don't touch classical music, and graduate students can come out not knowing much. But they must have been studying something

As for listening, isn't that a step on from hearing? Just as being read to from books leads on to children reading them?

The alternative is not that they listen rather than hear, but they never hear it. I think that in the film enough of the music was heard to be useful, though I might have rebalanced the amount of voiceover.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Many of whom probably aren't very keen on it themselves. Even universities have teachers who don't touch classical music, and graduate students can come out not knowing much. But they must have been studying something

I have a friend who was head of a university music department, but was expected to allow people on the course who could not read music.

[MrGongGong]

Many of whom probably aren't very keen on it themselves. Even universities have teachers who don't touch classical music, and graduate students can come out not knowing much. But they must have been studying something

Classical music is only a part of MUSIC so i'm not sure what the problem is if there are academics who don't "touch" it?

As for listening, isn't that a step on from hearing? Just as being read to from books leads on to children reading them?

I think listening is a skill that is often neglected. There is much to learn from electroacoustic music in this area.

I have a friend who was head of a university music department, but was expected to allow people on the course who could not read music.

I guess it all depends on what the nature of the course was?
Should someone who "doesn't do" improvisation be allowed on a university course? (for example)
Notated music (and i'm sitting here doing that today !) is a very important part of the music of the world BUT it's not everything.

[french frank]

Classical music is only a part of MUSIC so i'm not sure what the problem is if there are academics who don't "touch" it?

I responding with a comment to EA's comments, so In Context it had more meaning before you removed the context.

I guess it all depends on what the nature of the course was?
Should someone who "doesn't do" improvisation be allowed on a university course? (for example)

Why not? Music courses aren't just for performers. Or composers. I'm neither, but I find reading music helps me to follow music that isn't familiar.

[MrGongGong]

I responding with a comment to EA's comments, so In Context it had more meaning before you removed the context.

Ok, makes sense

Why not? Music courses aren't just for performers. Or composers. I'm neither, but I find reading music helps me to follow music that isn't familiar.

Indeed, it helps for music that has notation or is "note based" (as prof Landy would say)
But, given that there is plenty of music in the world that isn't notated (and this was true of Bach as well as Ravi Shankar etc) then I can think of music degrees where western notation would be irrelevant.

I still need to watch this though.
Overall, from what I've learn't about it, I think it's a great idea and WILL involve lots of youngsters listening to music they wouldn't otherwise encounter.
Compared to the channel 4 car crash the other day ?

[Old Grumpy]

OG I cannot believe that you don't watch "Strictly"!!!!!!

Strictly what, Mr Gould?



* No - I don't - is that where one or more of them is from?

[antongould]

Strictly what, Mr Gould?



* No - I don't - is that where one or more of them is from?

I think the Firebird was Claudia Winkleman.....this probably gets me banned.....

[Mary Chambers]

Very, very odd. There was an item about this on television news, which seemed to work on the principle that of course children don't like classical music, but it may be possible to convince them it isn't too bad after all. Strange assumptions.

[teamsaint]

Very, very odd. There was an item about this on television news, which seemed to work on the principle that of course children don't like classical music, but it may be possible to convince them it isn't too bad after all. Strange assumptions.

Just self justifying, really.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Very, very odd. There was an item about this on television news, which seemed to work on the principle that of course children don't like classical music, but it may be possible to convince them it isn't too bad after all. Strange assumptions.

My point exactly.

[MrGongGong]

My point exactly.

I think that many "classical music" enthusiasts are partly responsible for this attitude.

The insistence that somehow "their" () music is somehow more "mature" or something one "grows into"
The way in which, (even though this has changed considerably in the last 10 years) people under the age of 30 are represented in the images used to promote concerts.
The language that some (I mean SOME) folks use to talk about music.

All mean that for many people it's seen as "not for people like me".

Do a google image search with the word "Glyndebourne" for example !
Even though Glyndnebourne does loads of interesting work with all types of people in many different places (i've been to prison for them in the past ), what we see is an image of rich people in penguin suits.
NOTHING wrong with that in itself, but it's not going to encourage people who don't feel they are part of that sector of society to go.
Which has precious little to do with what the music actually SOUNDS like !!

Those of us who really got into music at a young age and didn't give a toss about being only teenager in the choral society or at the chamber music concert are the exceptions.