Classical Music Addicts

[kernelbogey]

Whoops - thanks SA - I checked, but not thoroughly enough.

FF - could you take appropriate action, please? Sorry! kb

[kernelbogey]

An article in today's Guardian by a professional violinist on the same subject (and a forthcoming Channel Four documentary).

With reference to the scepticism in some posts: we are all different. One of the points frequently made in the many recent articles about 'mental illness', following the death of Robin Williams, is how the stigma of 'mental illness' inhibits many with issues such as anxiety and depression (often suffered together) from being open about their suffering. It's unhelpful to dismiss these.

[Dave2002]

An article in today's Guardian by a professional violinist on the same subject (and a forthcoming Channel Four documentary).

With reference to the scepticism in some posts: we are all different. One of the points frequently made in the many recent articles about 'mental illness', following the death of Robin Williams, is how the stigma of 'mental illness' inhibits many with issues such as anxiety and depression (often suffered together) from being open about their suffering. It's unhelpful to dismiss these.

I believe that a very significant proportion of the UK population have mental problems at some time during their lives. It is not something that everyone wishes to discuss. Also friends and relatives may keep their distance if they become aware of problems.

I don't have a good estimate of the percentage - but I think it could be somewhere between 5-20%. Note, I did write "at some time" - so that could be just a few days, weeks or months, though some people do have problems which are persistent, or periodic. Most of the time many people will appear "normal". It's obviously a very complex issue. Some people may not be worried about their own peculiarities, but others may be really upset by their own awareness of their mental state. Others may not be aware of their mental state, but cause worries in others.

[BBMmk2]

I must be one of the lucky ones because the only time I was nervous was appearing at the Symphony Hall, Birmingham!! I have appeared on other prestigious stages, but, for some reason, this one did not agree with me!!

[pastoralguy]

I used to use beta blockers for stressful situations, such as auditions, after I had a terrible experience as a young student auditioning for the old RSAMD. The girl before me had auditioned and then, high as a kite, ran back into the room where we were all waiting and bumped into me, knocking my fiddle out my hand! It broke on the floor which was horrific. The supervisor told the audition panel whose attitude was, basically, too bad! Someone kindly loaned me their instrument putting me in the position of having to try to play a Mozart concerto on a strange instrument. The adrenalin of the situation caused me to have appalling stage fright that resulted in my intonation being less out of tune as giving sufficient evidence of what note I was aiming for!!

The audition panel were really horrible! The head adjudicator asked me 'what do you want to do with your music?' When I answered that my ambition was to play in the Philharmonia he replied 'well, you can forget about that!'

I did write and complain but got a very patronising reply. After that, I spoke to my GP who prescribed me beta blockers which I found really helpful. Just knowing they were in my fiddle case was a big plus. I didn't use them all the time but, if I had a big date, I would occasionally take one.

I should add that, in my role as a nurse these days, I see many patients who take VERY large doses of beta blockers on a daily basis with little side effects so, from a physiological point of view, I don't see how taking small doses irregularly can do that much harm. (Obviously, under the care of a Dr.) In fact, when I worked in cardiac surgery, I once spoke to one of the country's top heart surgeons who told me it was not uncommon for surgeons to take them, on occasion.

[Jonathan]

That sounds horrible!

I gave my first public performance at a School concert aged 15. For 3 days I was unable to eat with nerves but once I did the first performance (the whole thing was repeated the following day) I was much better. The second time was much less stressful. Or had been until a friends father told me it "was the worst performance of a Beethoven [Piano] Sonata I've ever heard".
I didn't play in public again for another 5 years, that time was at university and my friends were in the crowd and it was great! I'd played for them before so it didn't phase me. I played twice more in lunchtime concerts while doing my degree and found it fine.
However, playing at the Pianothon in 2009 in the Bridgewater Hall the nerves came back. When I did the next Pianothon in 2010 in Leeds, it was even worse. I also played at a work Christmas do but they were all drunk anyway! I've not played in public since. I even found myself getting nervous when recording myself playing and uploading the resulting videos to u-tube.
I never used any mediation of any sort for any of these performances, maybe I should have!

[Hornspieler]

That sounds horrible!

I gave my first public performance at a School concert aged 15. For 3 days I was unable to eat with nerves but once I did the first performance (the whole thing was repeated the following day) I was much better. The second time was much less stressful. Or had been until a friends father told me it "was the worst performance of a Beethoven [Piano] Sonata I've ever heard".
I didn't play in public again for another 5 years, that time was at university and my friends were in the crowd and it was great! I'd played for them before so it didn't phase me. I played twice more in lunchtime concerts while doing my degree and found it fine.
However, playing at the Pianothon in 2009 in the Bridgewater Hall the nerves came back. When I did the next Pianothon in 2010 in Leeds, it was even worse. I also played at a work Christmas do but they were all drunk anyway! I've not played in public since. I even found myself getting nervous when recording myself playing and uploading the resulting videos to u-tube.
I never used any mediation of any sort for any of these performances, maybe I should have!

I have plenty of medication of all varieties, Jonathan, but none that I can spare in my state of health.

My answer for you is quite simple. If playing in public causes you a panic attack, don't do it. (A pint glass of ale on the piano sometimes helps the reluctant performer)

HS

[Jonathan]

Ok, funny typo on my part, thanks HS!

I wonder if anyone has considered using meditation for calming the nerves (he said, checking the spelling carefully before posting!)

[french frank]

Ok, funny typo on my part, thanks HS!

Oh, was it a typo? I read it yesterday as an 'intermediate agent', medication or other, between your nerves and your performance

[jayne lee wilson]

Meditation, aka the now-fashionable "mindfulness", can help calm you, and is pleasant in itself. Alcohol too - in the opposite direction! But before a performance? I don't know, it's a long time since I did readings or poetry recitals...

It's a shame Herbal Remedies are often overlooked. Having tried, for all too many reasons, prescription antidepressants and tranquillisers from the dreadful Valium to Beta-blockers and SSRCs (aka Prozac, every variety of which made me sicker than the last with awful side-effects) I alighted upon Valerian and Lemon Balm around 10 years ago and I've used them ever since - mainly for sleep now, but they can be useful in stressful situations. There are no rules for them though - you'd have to experiment with preparations and amounts. Various sellers like Boots or Holland and Barrett have them, some are too mild, some (400mg pure dried root of Valerian) can make you very sleepy indeed. Trial & error the only way - but effective - you bet.

Saddest truth of all: the only real solution (as HS implies) is removing the cause of the stress itself. In life, by facing your problems head-on, one step at a time...
Stress or panic attacks are often caused by seeing an exaggerated, all-or-nothing view of the whole picture. Cognitive exercises - even written ones like listings, can help you see them clearly & realistically; but I'm not sure how you might apply that to live performance...

That's why football managers like to talk of one match at a time, every game as it comes, or in a tennis match it's point to point, game by game etc... to see the whole challenge ahead, in one gulp, can just overwhelm you, paralyse your ability to think, or better - act instinctively.
Could there be a musical, live performance version of that?

[Hornspieler]

Meditation, aka the now-fashionable "mindfulness", can help calm you, and is pleasant in itself. Alcohol too - in the opposite direction! But before a performance? I don't know, Saddest truth of all: the only real solution (as HS implies) is removing the cause of the stress itself. In life, by facing your problems head-on, one step at a time..

...or perhaps Yoga, Jayne (although that did for Menuhin's right shoulder and destroyed his bow arm completely.

Stress or panic attacks are often caused by seeing an exaggerated, all-or-nothing view of the whole picture. Cognitive exercises - even written ones like listings, can help you see them clearly & realistically; but I'm not sure how you might apply that to live performance...

Any sensitive performer will feel apprehensive about a difficult task, be it the programme content, the conductor, the occasion - or even who is sitting in the audience.
I was lucky in that I used to have my purlies after the performance (and the better I'd played, the more irritable and unapproachable I used to become)

Yes, I met many musicians who never suffered from nervous apprehension, but their playing was never of such depth and feeling as to bring a lump to ones throat.

That's why football managers like to talk of one match at a time, every game as it comes, or in a tennis match it's point to point, game by game etc... to see the whole challenge ahead, in one gulp, can just overwhelm you, paralyse your ability to think, or better - act instinctively.
Could there be a musical, live performance version of that?

Yes. As I said above. Aubrey Brain used to tell his pupils ... "...the most important note in any work is the one that you are about to play. Don't worry about what is to come until you arrive there."

HS

[mercia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28917454

[Richard Tarleton]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28917454

and http://www.channel4.com/info/press/p...dicts-symphony

[kernelbogey]

Another piece in today's Guardian related to this programme tonight:

'To admit this publicly may amount to professional suicide. However, I'm frustrated with the classical-music profession and the fact that stage fright is still a touchy subject, despite the huge pressures on musicians. My story is not unique. Many classical musicians struggle alone, masking their nerves with beta blockers and alcohol, ashamed, as I was. For some reason, it is more acceptable to admit frailty in the world of rock and pop.'

[Hornspieler]

and http://www.channel4.com/info/press/p...dicts-symphony

I recorded this TV broadcast late last night and will be viewing it later this morning.

I will post my reactions to the programme later today.

Did anyone else view it?

HS