Schubert Sonata D570/571/604

[teamsaint]

Looking through the Wiki lists of Schubert sonatas and various fragments , I noticed that wiki has D 604 as
" Probably the second movement" of the unfinished D571,(and 570).

The Alwin Bar completion of 570/571 doesn't include D 604 as a second movement of his completed 570/571, and I wondered why, since he was completing and putting things together, he didn't add D604 as the second movement.
A step too far? Not thought of when he did the completion?

Anybody have any thoughts, as to whether they would work well together, or any thoughts on Bars completions?
"A general discussion on the merits of various cycles of Schubert Sonatas and might form part of your answers"...as they used to say at school !!

[richardfinegold]

Looking through the Wiki lists of Schubert sonatas and various fragments , I noticed that wiki has D 604 as
" Probably the second movement" of the unfinished D571,(and 570).

The Alwin Bar completion of 570/571 doesn't include D 604 as a second movement of his completed 570/571, and I wondered why, since he was completing and putting things together, he didn't add D604 as the second movement.
A step too far? Not thought of when he did the completion?

Anybody have any thoughts, as to whether they would work well together, or any thoughts on Bars completions?
"A general discussion on the merits of various cycles of Schubert Sonatas and might form part of your answers"...as they used to say at school !!

He was barely 30 when he died. His output was staggering. Had he been given a few more years to organize and edit some of his creations the "Schubert Canon" as we know it would no doubt be very different.

[aeolium]

TS, I'm afraid I possess no complete set of Schubert piano sonatas, the recordings I do have being mainly of the sonatas from D664 onwards. I did hear some of the earlier ones played by Andras Schiff as part of his complete Schubert cycle at Wigmore Hall quite a few years back, and have heard them from time to time on R3. My impression of them (I am thinking of e.g. sonatas D568 and 625) was that they were beautifully lyrical with at times interesting harmonies but almost more of an uncertain exploration of a medium that Schubert believed Beethoven had taken to its zenith; the development of fine melodies is sometimes halting and petering out, and it is not an accident that several sonatas are unfinished. I think it is with the Wanderer Fantasy and the A minor sonata D784 onwards that Schubert really begins to produce masterpieces in the medium. My favourite interpreters of these later sonatas are Schiff, Lupu and Pollini (and Curzon in the B flat sonata D960).

Sorry I can't help with your particular query, though I'm sure there are others who can. Alfred Einstein in his Schubert biography is not particularly enlightening here and I think there must be more recent scholarship which has illuminated this area better.

[amateur51]

TS, I'm afraid I possess no complete set of Schubert piano sonatas, the recordings I do have being mainly of the sonatas from D664 onwards. I did hear some of the earlier ones played by Andras Schiff as part of his complete Schubert cycle at Wigmore Hall quite a few years back, and have heard them from time to time on R3. My impression of them (I am thinking of e.g. sonatas D568 and 625) was that they were beautifully lyrical with at times interesting harmonies but almost more of an uncertain exploration of a medium that Schubert believed Beethoven had taken to its zenith; the development of fine melodies is sometimes halting and petering out, and it is not an accident that several sonatas are unfinished. I think it is with the Wanderer Fantasy and the A minor sonata D784 onwards that Schubert really begins to produce masterpieces in the medium. My favourite interpreters of these later sonatas are Schiff, Lupu and Pollini (and Curzon in the B flat sonata D960).

Sorry I can't help with your particular query, though I'm sure there are others who can. Alfred Einstein in his Schubert biography is not particularly enlightening here and I think there must be more recent scholarship which has illuminated this area better.

Many thanks aeolium, most enlightening. Don't, ever, forget recordings by Sviatoslav Richter. Paul Badura-Skoda on fortepiano is fascinating and pretty cheap too.

We await ferney and Roehre, at a guess

[aeolium]

Many thanks aeolium, most enlightening. Don't, ever, forget recordings by Svisatoslav Richter. Paul Badura-Skoda on fortepiano is fascinating and pretty cheap too.

We await ferney and Roehre, at a guess

And I forgot Andreas Staier, whose performances of the late sonatas on a period instrument are exceptional.

I'm afraid I find Richter uneven here. His tempo for the first movement of the Reliquie sonata D840, for instance, is imo almost ludicrously slow to the point of stasis. Still, it's all a matter of taste

[teamsaint]

TS, I'm afraid I possess no complete set of Schubert piano sonatas, the recordings I do have being mainly of the sonatas from D664 onwards. I did hear some of the earlier ones played by Andras Schiff as part of his complete Schubert cycle at Wigmore Hall quite a few years back, and have heard them from time to time on R3. My impression of them (I am thinking of e.g. sonatas D568 and 625) was that they were beautifully lyrical with at times interesting harmonies but almost more of an uncertain exploration of a medium that Schubert believed Beethoven had taken to its zenith; the development of fine melodies is sometimes halting and petering out, and it is not an accident that several sonatas are unfinished. I think it is with the Wanderer Fantasy and the A minor sonata D784 onwards that Schubert really begins to produce masterpieces in the medium. My favourite interpreters of these later sonatas are Schiff, Lupu and Pollini (and Curzon in the B flat sonata D960).

Sorry I can't help with your particular query, though I'm sure there are others who can. Alfred Einstein in his Schubert biography is not particularly enlightening here and I think there must be more recent scholarship which has illuminated this area better.

Thanks Aeolium.
My question was a bit of fun really, (although out of genuine curiosity as to why Bar hadn't gone the whole hog on 570/571/and possibly 604, )but sort of designed to provoke a discussion.

My only recording are the brilliant Classics Big Box, which a bit unusually has a set (I think) of all the complete Sonatas, plus various bits and bobs of the unfinished or partially lost works. In this case, played by a variety or performers, Klara Wurtz in the last 3, and various others in the earlier works.

Complete editions of recordings, (whatever that might be !) seem fairly thin on the ground, and expensive .
Still they are such rewarding works, and I'll listen to some with your comment about an "uncertin exploration " in mind.

I did hear somebody,( a guest on EC ?) give a big thumbs up to the Murray Perahia recordings. Looks as though he may only have done the late Sonatas .Any thoughts,anybody?

[aeolium]

I did hear somebody,( a guest on EC ?) give a big thumbs up to the Murray Perahia recordings. Looks as though he may only have done the late Sonatas .Any thoughts,anybody?

Though I like a good number of Perahia recordings, I found his performances of the last 3 Schubert sonatas colourless and dull - very surprising. I eventually gave my copy to a local charity shop. I was also disappointed in Paul Lewis' recording, even though a concert performance of the same sonatas which was broadcast live on R3 was impressive.

I wish Steven Osborne would record more Schubert. He gave a terrific recital at Cheltenham a couple of years back.

[EdgeleyRob]

Don't know the answer to your query ts,it does seem debatable how many sonatas Schubert actually wrote from what I can gather.
Anything from 13 to 20 odd.

Anyway,I love this box,although it doesn't have 570/571 or 604

[amateur51]

And I forgot Andreas Staier, whose performances of the late sonatas on a period instrument are exceptional.

I'm afraid I find Richter uneven here. His tempo for the first movement of the Reliquie sonata D840, for instance, is imo almost ludicrously slow to the point of stasis. Still, it's all a matter of taste

I find it extraordinary how that is often my initial reaction to a Richter reading and then when I listen to a more 'mainstream' reading I find myself thinking "Hello this is rather swift, skating over the surface".

Thanks for reminding me about Andreas Staier too