Where is everyone?

[Pabmusic]

...Lastly, lots of people hang around messageboards because they have WAY too much time on their hands and/or many don't connect very well with people face to face. You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say. As I wouldn't want to speak with this kind of person face to face I show no interest in them on the internet because they are seeking attention and affirmation...

Oh dear, a description that fits me almost to a T, except for the last phrasal clause. How sad that you "wouldn't want to speak with [me] face to face" because I'm "seeking attention and affirmation". How do you know me that well?

I retired because of an illness that very nearly killed me (medium-severe brain haemorrhage) and moved to my wife's country in part because I'd have a stress-free life. It has been wonderful, and I have been able to pursue music-making like never before. This forum has been a marvel - all these 'petty', perhaps peripheral (yet all-important) topics and comments allow me to feel part of a group. How dare you suggest that I'm seeking attention and affirmation!

I know nothing of your personality so can't comment on you.

[french frank]

A technical query - I'm "logged in" all the time, in that I never bother logging out and my computer puts me straight through whenever I click on the site - I'm not sure if I appear "logged on" to the outside world if my computer's on

As far as I can see (Andrew may put me right), if you are on the internet you would then show as logged in. I'm sure I've seen myself as logged in when I've checked the forum as an 'unregistered guest' on my laptop, even though the desktop is not viewing any site. And with tabbed browsers people can be getting on with their work and be permanently showing as 'online' - all day!

Second point, I can only see one day during August which was unusually quiet; the average for the month so far is 255 posts per day - not appreciably below normal. Active membership has been steady for several years.

It is absolutely normal for forums to have far more members than ever post (I've joined forums just to post on a particular topic and never returned). It has been the case with this forum pretty much ever since we began. For reasons I don't understand, we seem to have been deserted by the search engines, and whereas at one point you had only to try and check on a subject which had just been started only to find the top hit was the very post that had led you to google the subject. That doesn't happen anymore, so we are less visible than we used to be.

[kea]

Lastly, lots of people hang around messageboards because they [...] don't connect very well with people face to face.

This is a valid point—it's those sort of people who primarily populated messageboards when they first sprung up, and who in turn contributed to the bad reputation of the internet in general and messageboards in particular as homes of "trolling" and such bad-tempered individuals as you describe—whose behaviour is as much cause as effect of being unable to connect with people in "real life". With the decline of messageboarding those people are again being driven back underground where they were before. But I'm not sure that's a healthy solution; a friendless misanthrope who craves attention online is in fact doing nothing harmful (one can always ignore them), whereas the same person deprived of that kind of opportunity may well end up going on a shooting rampage.

(Obviously it would be ideal if such people sought therapeutic help in order to integrate better into society and regain the capacity for close relationships, but such a solution is not always medically—or financially—viable.)

For this forum I think most of the people who hang around all day would be retired or otherwise in possession of lots of free time; I suspect I am the only one who meets the traditional stereotype of friendless attention seeker (due to a set of life circumstances I imagine people here won't be very sympathetic towards) but I try my best to treat everyone respectfully & with politeness. And I don't think I'm consciously seeking attention, though wouldn't be surprised if that's how my posts come across (how many times does the pronoun "I" appear in this post? A lot more than it should methinks)

@FF - I keep this board & a few others open in tabs in the background while I'm doing other stuff, so it's possible that I show as online every time I'm using my computer... have never checked to see if that is indeed the case though.

[french frank]

@FF - I keep this board & a few others open in tabs in the background while I'm doing other stuff, so it's possible that I show as online every time I'm using my computer... have never checked to see if that is indeed the case though.

Exactly. I just checked again on my PC which isn't logged in. 'french frank' was online even though french frank's computer wasn't visiting any site - the forum or any other.

No one knows how much anyone is hanging around other than by how many times they post - which apparently hardly anyone does now - or by checking who's online and how long they've been stuck on the same page. If it's 'The Radio 3 Forum' that's just the homepage.

And no one knows ('cept me ) how many people are online who have chosen to be invisible ...

[Pabmusic]

..(how many times does the pronoun "I" appear in this post? A lot more than it should methinks)...

Sorry, Kea, but this is just silly. Do we really expect boarders to write in the third person? Or be neutral - "one might think that…"?

I don't know what things were like when message boards started, but I can't see what is being said here. Different people have different opinions? (Hide them in case they offend someone?) Is that what people really expect?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A technical query - I'm "logged in" all the time, in that I never bother logging out and my computer puts me straight through whenever I click on the site -

Moi aussi!

[cloughie]

Moi aussi!

Lost in France?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Lost in France?

No, I was just pretending to avoid the 1st person singular.

[Pabmusic]

No, I was just pretending to avoid the 1st person singular.

[amateur51]

Lastly, lots of people hang around messageboards because they have WAY too much time on their hands and/or many don't connect very well with people face to face. You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say.

Let's face it, sweet cheeks, if you see them when you're logged in then you only see them when you're logged in. You cannot know that they're CONSTANTLY logged in. It just irks you, that's all.

Get over it.

Capisc?

[kea]

Sorry, Kea, but this is just silly. Do we really expect boarders to write in the third person?

No, but I think it is reasonable to expect people to post on topics other than themselves. At least occasionally. (I am definitely the most guilty of this... see, there it goes again)

I don't know what things were like when message boards started, but I can't see what is being said here.

Essentially it's that messageboards became havens for people with poor social skills (whether out of shyness or misanthropy) who are empowered by anonymity, but which often leads them to perpetuate these poor social skills through attention-seeking or putting down others; and that nonetheless this serves as a relatively harmless channel for these feelings which might otherwise cause harm to people in the real world.

On second thought I'm not sure that's any clearer than it was the first time

[aeolium]

Essentially it's that messageboards became havens for people with poor social skills (whether out of shyness or misanthropy) who are empowered by anonymity, but which often leads them to perpetuate these poor social skills through attention-seeking or putting down others; and that nonetheless this serves as a relatively harmless channel for these feelings which might otherwise cause harm to people in the real world.

Though you could also say it's a means by which people with some particular common interests could have discussions about those interests with far more people (and far more interestingly) than they could manage in their immediate environment, meeting people face to face. And if some people are shy or have poor social skills, it can be a means by which they can communicate with the outside world in a way which is more comfortable to them - would you deny them even that crutch?

I haven't really noticed many abusive or unpleasant postings in the whole time I have been on these boards. There have been two or three aggressive and hostile contributors at various times, though thankfully they are no longer around (and there is a board etiquette here).

[Pabmusic]

...would you deny them even that crutch?...

I haven't needed a crutch for a few years. I do use a walking stick, though.

[johnb]

Krystal, thank you for a very useful post!

Firstly, there is only so much one can say about the same piece of music, concert, film etc. When one is repeating oneself, which I've done elsewhere, you know it's a sign to stop (and that's what I've decided to do).

This is much less of an issue when there is a flow of new contributors with new view points and when there are some contributors who have views that differ from the consensus and who spark discussion.

Secondly, group-think is a feature of many messageboards and dissenters have a very hard time trying to avoid abuse. That's what I found here; a certain tone in comments which had me rolling my eyes and wanting to find the exit. Too many people use the anonymity of the net to abuse others and force their own opinions onto them. I name nobody because this problem is endemic on the internet, not just R3 Forum.

In general this forum is very welcoming and extremely civilised, especially when you consider that it is administered with the lightest touch I have ever come across in any of the forums I've used. However, there have been times (though pretty rare) when newcomers who have posted non-consensus views have been accused of trolling, etc, while people like me just watched - unfortunate, but rare.

One contributor was often thought of as ... err ... somewhat outspoken and 'controversial' but I think he was a very valuable member of the forum and spoke with the insight that only professional musicians have. Though his posts were often tempered with the somewhat cynical camouflage (which I enjoyed) that can come with being a pro musician.

Lastly, lots of people hang around messageboards because they have WAY too much time on their hands and/or many don't connect very well with people face to face. You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say. As I wouldn't want to speak with this kind of person face to face I show no interest in them on the internet because they are seeking attention and affirmation.

That is just blatant discrimination against friendless misanthropes like me - there should be Equal Opportunities Legislation for misanthropes!

[kea]

And if some people are shy or have poor social skills, it can be a means by which they can communicate with the outside world in a way which is more comfortable to them - would you deny them even that crutch?

Rather the opposite—but the decline of message boards, caused (in part at least) by the negative perceptions of such socially unskilled people—often related to the sorts of experiences Krystal recounted—is essentially serving to leave them without that crutch and in greater isolation. That's not a real solution.

I haven't really noticed many abusive or unpleasant postings in the whole time I have been on these boards. There have been two or three aggressive and hostile contributors at various times, though thankfully they are no longer around (and there is a board etiquette here).

I agree with this, but I haven't been around very long. I do know that the atmosphere on the old BBC boards was at times extremely hostile. (The decline of this particular messageboard, if it is a real decline at all, would seem to have more to do with the not enough new blood/old boys' club atmosphere; however welcoming and friendly people are, a newcomer can't help but feel like a fifth wheel.)