Where is everyone?

[Serial_Apologist]

I would describe the music of composers such as Massenet and Martin as beige, there being nothing whatever wrong with beige music, beige being a very liveable colour, but it would explain why not many people have much to say about their music.

[cloughie]

I would describe the music of composers such as Massenet and Martin as beige, there being nothing whatever wrong with beige music, beige being a very liveable colour, but it would explain why not many people have much to say about their music.

Provide you call it one of the fifty shades of white - beige doesn't really exist in the 21st century - one of the first bits of Massenet I got to know via a 10" Decca LP (NSOL/Irving I think), Le Cid Ballet Suite is anything but beige!

[kea]

Perhaps Messageboards belonged to the first decade of the century.

Half a decade: 2002 to 2007, more or less.

Blogs died out around the same time as did almost every form of long-form communication. Facebook took over for a few years, then Twitter (more briefly) and nowadays it seems to be mostly text messaging.

[richardfinegold]

I've noticed that over the last 3 or 4 months or so, there has been a marked dropped in activity on these revered boards. It seems that even posts that would hitherto have attracted much debate and banter, and so on, sit there for sometimes a few weeks with no additional comment....

What is going on? Gone are the days when I could login, and within minutes much stimulating discussion would ensue. It is as if the whole shebang has stagnated..... :(

Agreed, Nick, it's been dull around here.

[jayne lee wilson]

Part of the problem here is a lack of shared experience to comment on....many gave up on Gramophone during the Inverne years, and of those who take IRR not many comment on it regularly... these things could be monthly points of contact...

Away from the Proms, there's been a dearth of Radio 3 concerts which feel like Real Events - far fewer Orchestral Concerts of note to share and discuss... even I lose the habit of checking the scheds... and then Life Changes, you get busier, listening time is precious, you prefer to roll your own...

With the Proms themselves there seems a tendency to stick to Core Repertoire, shying away from the new or unusual, and the difficulty of commenting upon it...
"New Releases" are rarely that on the thread concerned, just large boxsets of re-releases, about which there's little new to say...(it would be great if 5 people gave their impressions of Norgard's 8th Symphony (with the VPO, for heaven's sake - some event!), but what can you do? It took me 5 goes to get anywhere...)

These things have their own rhythm, they rise & fall like all "publication" whether print or digital, like the weather... HiFi Magazines were always fairly repetitive - how grateful they were to be able to report & advise on, and analyse, Computer Audio! Music Reviews are in a much better position for "new news" but... see above! I've often fantasised about a world where "musiclovers" look forward to New Music and new performances, like London audiences going to the Salomon Haydn concerts, but maybe Classical Musical Culture never really got over the Shock of the New.. I guess it won't happen now. The "New", the little known, lives on vividly, but largely through recordings... with tiny sales figures. And little discussion.

When the Politics thread was hived off, some life and drive went with it; I feel a bit guilty about provoking that myself, & preaching to the converted is never half so exciting as ranting at the enemy (what would we do without the Barbarians etc), but if it was in response to popular demand, then again... what can you do?

I still feel that Live Concerts are potentially a great agent provocateur of discussion & debate, but - without any "rules of engagement"! Again, mea culpa if I've been provocative of any offputting fallouts over them...

But maybe all "Classical Cultures" or "Classical Music" cultures - listening, commenting, appreciating, are fighting a rearguard. Who knows where the retreat will stop...

[P. G. Tipps]

Perhaps we need an inflammatory thread eg: Mahler's music is rubbish or Michael Gove is the best Education Secretary ever

Actually. there must be many who agree with either or indeed both of these statements (I hasten to add I'm not one of them!) and who would be immediately denounced as being 'inflammatory' and 'provocative' for merely saying so.

It is sad that those with the courage (or stupidity!) to challenge the 'received wisdom' on the forum are often the ones labelled 'troublemakers' and decide to leave because of the incessant abuse of a few almost hysterically intolerant members.

After all, there can be quite a few more rewarding things to do in life than continually banging one's head against the very thickest of "brick walls" ... ?

[Flosshilde]

Away from the Proms,

Can one get 'away from the Proms'? - they occupy every evening and every weekday afternoon with the repeats, plus some lunchtimes & weekend afternoons.

there's been a dearth of Radio 3 concerts which feel like Real Events - far fewer Orchestral Concerts of note to share and discuss...

I would say that that's because of the Proms; and they also (as I've said before) push anything that isn't big orchestra music out of the prime-time slot.

With the Proms themselves there seems a tendency to stick to Core Repertoire, ...

Quite.

All making up a rather predictable & dull summer (not just this summer) musically on R3

[Dave2002]

Some of "us" are invisible!

[umslopogaas]

Like a previous poster I am not musically trained and have little useful to contribute to the majority of posts. I will certainly pitch in when I think my expertise will be useful, but crop protection doesnt come up very often ...

Concerning Frank Martin, I once had an enthusiasm for this composer and have twenty CDs entirely or partly devoted to his work. I certainly dont find his music beige or white. It seems to me to be ascetic, and if it was any colour it would be a sort of steely grey. I dont think he will ever be a popular composer, but I found him very rewarding and must try some of them again, I havent played any of those discs for ages.

[french frank]

Blogs died out around the same time as did almost every form of long-form communication. Facebook took over for a few years, then Twitter (more briefly) and nowadays it seems to be mostly text messaging.

That's never been true for Radio 3's Facebook and Twitter efforts. The majority of Facebook comments (and there are hardly any from listeners) are by Radio 3 and others with something to promote, like a forthcoming appearance. Most 'users' are indeed from their much pursued 25-34 age group, and a third to a half of the serial 'likers' appear not to be based in the UK at all. That doesn't suggest it attracts a representative cross-section of the Radio 3 audience. Even while this forum is relatively quiet, we're still getting 6,500 to 7,500 posts every month - which far outnumbers the BBC Radio 3's Facebook - and just compare the two global brands of Facebook and the BBC with FoR3!

Radio 3's blog is similarly little used except on the odd occasion when 'someone controversial' posts. Mainly it's jazz and world music these days. Twitter is pretty useless too - except to catch the attention (apparently) of Radio 3 Breakfast presenters. Texting, similarly, doesn't put you in touch with an audience.

[Don Petter]

I can't help feeling that there is an inevitable diminution in contributions because of the path that R3 is currently taking.

True, there may seem much scope for posts of complaint, but so many members are saying that they listen to the station less and less that in general there are fewer opportunities for comment on the main subject of the Forum.

[pilamenon]

I agree with much of what JLW says here. Additionally, there isn't an endless supply of Radio 3-ish mentality people out there (as the station is finding out the hard way!) and many of those who've taken part here or on the old BBC board inevitably drift away or want to/need to spend less screen time. Though many of the topics discussed here potentially interest me, I'm one of them.

The other thing that really puts me off nowadays is the chain of one-liner, smiley-ridden posts that so many threads seem to spawn. I feel like I'm really wasting my time when you start wading through this stuff in the hope that someone will make an interesting point in the original discussion. Eventually, the likelihood is that large parts of the forum will become the privilege of a select handful who enjoy their own private banter that others are excluded from.

Having said that, I've particularly enjoyed reading what others have said in the ideas and theory sections, e.g. the recent one on the causes of WW1, and am indebted to whoever recommended Christopher Clark's book on the subject, which has furnished me with some stimulating summer reading.

Flosshilde - the Proms are more than a series of orchestral concerts nowadays. In fact, it's the fact that the variety has broadened out to include other genres that seems to upset so many people. The Cadogan Hall concerts, the late-nighters? I agree the endless trailing is tedious, but you can't get away from that anywhere on the BBC nowadays.

I also get really bored with all the "neglected British composer" discussions - taking the view as I do that they have probably been neglected for good reason!

[Flosshilde]

Flosshilde - the Proms are more than a series of orchestral concerts nowadays. In fact, it's the fact that the variety has broadened out to include other genres that seems to upset so many people. The Cadogan Hall concerts, the late-nighters? I agree the endless trailing is tedious, but you can't get away from that anywhere on the BBC nowadays.

Agreed, but the peak/prime time slot - weekday evenings at 7.30 - is occupied by the RAH orchestral concerts, which are repeated in the afternoons. During the rest of the year there is much more variety in the evenings & I probably listen more to those. The afternoon concert compilations have less variety, but still, I think, a bit more than during the Proms season. (but I'm repeating myself)

[PJPJ]

I also get really bored with all the "neglected British composer" discussions - taking the view as I do that they have probably been neglected for good reason!

I don't.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I can't help feeling that there is an inevitable diminution in contributions because of the path that R3 is currently taking.

True, there may seem much scope for posts of complaint, but so many members are saying that they listen to the station less and less that in general there are fewer opportunities for comment on the main subject of the Forum.

We can go round in circles discussing the two remaining programmes on Radio 3:
1. Breakfast/EssentialClassics/Sunday/The Choir/InTune
2. The Proms

But as things slide and our pleas are ignored, we end up repeating ourselves, just as CB-H et al repeat themselves.
So to preserve sanity, we end up talking about non-R3 things.