Where is everyone?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

This thread has got heavy with the subject of musical literacy. Have members not considered an element of musical education as a function of the forum? It's interesting to see how apologetic some posters are about their knowledge and how little confidence they have in their ability to articulate much understanding of music.

Yet, another strand is regretting the lack of depth in the comment. The two positions can be reconciled. Perhaps a starting point would be to have a dedicated strand for musical questions, answers and statements. A place or places where curiosity can be actively expressed.

Are scores available online? Many people who enjoy music don't read it. However, just as one doesn't need to be a cartographer to read maps, one doesn't need to be a musicologist to read a score. Very limited musical knowledge (like my own) enables someone roughly to follow a score and developing the ability to see the music as it's passing can give a different sense of the landscape and the weather.

Is there anywhere I haven't spotted that invites the listener to cultivate their understanding?

There is a "Music Question & Answers" Thread, started by Alison:

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?10169-Musical-questions-and-answers-thread&highlight=music+question+answers

EDIT: I see this cross-posted with frenchie's link to the same Thread.

As Roslynmuse points out, many free scores are downloadable from IMSLP (better to follow them onscreen - the cost of printer ink makes buying a hard copy cheaper for the larger scores! There are also videos on youTube that show the score as the Music's playing - very useful for learning to follow scores: no chance of getting lost (for long)!

Incidentally, I am a contributor to this Forum, but not a member of (the) Friends of Radio3. As it says on the "Forum page:

This is a privately-run forum provided for members of the public with an interest in Radio 3, not the official messageboard of Friends of Radio 3.

I used to be very friendly, but now I feel I'm only a passing acquaintance.

[Blotto]

Perhaps some of your questions should be directed at the BBC or Radio 3 rather than a small private forum?

I don't understand. Which questions?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I used to be very friendly, but now I feel I'm only a passing acquaintance.

You have many friends here; friends don't always have to agree.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You have many friends here; friends don't always have to agree.

- oh, yes; I meant "a passing acquaintance (rather than a "Friend") of Radio3". The Forum is like a welcoming pub - a warm welcome, with always something unexpected on the menu.

[cloughie]

- oh, yes; I meant "a passing acquaintance (rather than a "Friend") of Radio3". The Forum is like a welcoming pub - a warm welcome, with always something unexpected on the menu.

...and the choice between the familiar regular and an interesting guest ale!

[french frank]

I don't understand. Which questions?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear -I meant your last sentence question: "Is there anywhere I haven't spotted that invites the listener to cultivate their understanding? " And what I meant by my comment was that that is really what Radio 3 is supposed to do, so R3 could be asked where listeners can go to 'cultivate their understanding', if not on Radio 3 (which does so sporadically - e.g. Ravel Day)

[teamsaint]

Originally Posted by Blotto
This thread has got heavy with the subject of musical literacy. Have members not considered an element of musical education as a function of the forum? It's interesting to see how apologetic some posters are about their knowledge and how little confidence they have in their ability to articulate much understanding of music.

Yet, another strand is regretting the lack of depth in the comment. The two positions can be reconciled. Perhaps a starting point would be to have a dedicated strand for musical questions, answers and statements. A place or places where curiosity can be actively expressed.

Are scores available online? Many people who enjoy music don't read it. However, just as one doesn't need to be a cartographer to read maps, one doesn't need to be a musicologist to read a score. Very limited musical knowledge (like my own) enables someone roughly to follow a score and developing the ability to see the music as it's passing can give a different sense of the landscape and the weather.

Is there anywhere I haven't spotted that invites the listener to cultivate their understanding?




Wouldn't the point be that the curious need to be investigating for themselves, via the expertise and helpfulness of others on the forum?

If you aren't curious enough to ask......

its easy enough.

i could easily ask something like " are there harmonic features that make Schuberts last three Piano Sonatas very different from his earlier works, both for the piano and otherwise".....and I bet I would loads of replies, many of them polite !!
Or I could ask which complete set of the sonatas would look nicest on my new shelving units, and get equally interesting views expressed.

Or, " Its a two way street. walk up and down it, and see what is in the shops......"

[cloughie]

Originally Posted by Blotto
This thread has got heavy with the subject of musical literacy. Have members not considered an element of musical education as a function of the forum? It's interesting to see how apologetic some posters are about their knowledge and how little confidence they have in their ability to articulate much understanding of music.

Yet, another strand is regretting the lack of depth in the comment. The two positions can be reconciled. Perhaps a starting point would be to have a dedicated strand for musical questions, answers and statements. A place or places where curiosity can be actively expressed.

Are scores available online? Many people who enjoy music don't read it. However, just as one doesn't need to be a cartographer to read maps, one doesn't need to be a musicologist to read a score. Very limited musical knowledge (like my own) enables someone roughly to follow a score and developing the ability to see the music as it's passing can give a different sense of the landscape and the weather.

Is there anywhere I haven't spotted that invites the listener to cultivate their understanding?




Wouldn't the point be that the curious need to be investigating for themselves, via the expertise and helpfulness of others on the forum?

If you aren't curious enough to ask......

its easy enough.

i could easily ask something like " are there harmonic features that make Schuberts last three Piano Sonatas very different from his earlier works, both for the piano and otherwise".....and I bet I would loads of replies, many of them polite !!
Or I could ask which complete set of the sonatas would look nicest on my new shelving units, and get equally interesting views expressed.

Or, " Its a two way street. walk up and down it, and see what is in the shops......"

By 'eck ts that's cracking advice - good to see all that punk rock hasn't befuddled you!

[teamsaint]

By 'eck ts that's cracking advice - good to see all that punk rock hasn't befuddled you!

Nice of you to say so, Cloughie, but sadly it did befuddle me.
you should have seen and heard me before .........dynamite !! all downhill since " Something better change"...........

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

- oh, yes; I meant "a passing acquaintance (rather than a "Friend") of Radio3". The Forum is like a welcoming pub - a warm welcome, with always something unexpected on the menu.

Oh that's OK then. I misinterpreted your post and thought you were feeling alienated.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Oh that's OK then. I misinterpreted your post and thought you were feeling alienated.

[Krystal]

I've just come to this messageboard again to read only and have seen this thread. I'm at the end of messageboarding experience, having grown bored with it, but I might add some comments as to why the board may have gone quiet. Firstly, there is only so much one can say about the same piece of music, concert, film etc. When one is repeating oneself, which I've done elsewhere, you know it's a sign to stop (and that's what I've decided to do). Secondly, group-think is a feature of many messageboards and dissenters have a very hard time trying to avoid abuse. That's what I found here; a certain tone in comments which had me rolling my eyes and wanting to find the exit. Too many people use the anonymity of the net to abuse others and force their own opinions onto them. I name nobody because this problem is endemic on the internet, not just R3 Forum. I contributed to an American messageboard for 2 years and was driven away by a misanthropic individual who had 'runs on the board' but a huge chip on his shoulder (surely an uncomfortable position for anybody!) and his behaviour continued to be tolerated because "he's been around so long". He was a rage-fuelled and hateful individual who felt better about himself when he was able to put somebody (me and others) down. Zzzzzzz.

Lastly, lots of people hang around messageboards because they have WAY too much time on their hands and/or many don't connect very well with people face to face. You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say. As I wouldn't want to speak with this kind of person face to face I show no interest in them on the internet because they are seeking attention and affirmation. One such person hounded me from board to board and there was no limit to the amount of embarrassment/humiliation this person attracted. Yo. That's so yesterday. This leads me to my final point; partisan moderation drives good people from messageboards. Contributors need to be accountable for their behaviour and moderation needs to be consistent, fair and non-biased. Too many moderators are part of 'the club' and this is a major deterrent for people like myself. I'm just over it.

That's just my 5 cents worth and you can do with it what you will. With best wishes, Krystal.

[verismissimo]

I've just come to this messageboard again to read only and have seen this thread. I'm at the end of messageboarding experience, having grown bored with it, but I might add some comments as to why the board may have gone quiet. Firstly, there is only so much one can say about the same piece of music, concert, film etc. When one is repeating oneself, which I've done elsewhere, you know it's a sign to stop (and that's what I've decided to do). Secondly, group-think is a feature of many messageboards and dissenters have a very hard time trying to avoid abuse. That's what I found here; a certain tone in comments which had me rolling my eyes and wanting to find the exit. Too many people use the anonymity of the net to abuse others and force their own opinions onto them. I name nobody because this problem is endemic on the internet, not just R3 Forum. I contributed to an American messageboard for 2 years and was driven away by a misanthropic individual who had 'runs on the board' but a huge chip on his shoulder (surely an uncomfortable position for anybody!) and his behaviour continued to be tolerated because "he's been around so long". He was a rage-fuelled and hateful individual who felt better about himself when he was able to put somebody (me and others) down. Zzzzzzz.

Lastly, lots of people hang around messageboards because they have WAY too much time on their hands and/or many don't connect very well with people face to face. You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say. As I wouldn't want to speak with this kind of person face to face I show no interest in them on the internet because they are seeking attention and affirmation. One such person hounded me from board to board and there was no limit to the amount of embarrassment/humiliation this person attracted. Yo. That's so yesterday. This leads me to my final point; partisan moderation drives good people from messageboards. Contributors need to be accountable for their behaviour and moderation needs to be consistent, fair and non-biased. Too many moderators are part of 'the club' and this is a major deterrent for people like myself. I'm just over it.

That's just my 5 cents worth and you can do with it what you will. With best wishes, Krystal.

Thoughtful and perceptive post, thanks Krystal.

[Dave2002]

... group-think is a feature of many messageboards and dissenters have a very hard time trying to avoid abuse.

That's a good point, though I don't see it too much around here. I still think a 5p charge for plastic bags is overkill, and the wrong way to handle an environmental problem - postings on the Politics and Current Affairs Board - and I will come back on that one.

... lots of people hang around messageboards because they have WAY too much time on their hands and/or many don't connect very well with people face to face. You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say.

Indeed - this is quite possible, but some people aren't working, or are ill, or are in need of help. If one has a very full life, and doesn't need advice, help, information or feel any sort of need to contribute to others, then there is no point/need to use messageboards.

partisan moderation drives good people from messageboards. Contributors need to be accountable for their behaviour and moderation needs to be consistent, fair and non-biased. Too many moderators are part of 'the club' and this is a major deterrent for people like myself.

I agree that can be a problem, though I feel that moderation here is fairly light touch.

[Richard Tarleton]

You see these people logged in CONSTANTLY, often having little to really say

A technical query - I'm "logged in" all the time, in that I never bother logging out and my computer puts me straight through whenever I click on the site - I'm not sure if I appear "logged on" to the outside world if my computer's on but I'm not in fact looking at the site and may be doing something different, and may not even be in the house.....

I'm just off out now, to connect with people face to face