Franck and fashion

[amateur51]

If the conductor attempts to turn the symphony into French Bruckner, the whole project falls apart. Rather like Rachmaninov symphony no. 2 it needs to be taken at a fair old lick, when it can be wonderful

And the string quartet is an absolute stonker

[ahinton]

If the conductor attempts to turn the symphony into French Bruckner, the whole project falls apart. Rather like Rachmaninov symphony no. 2 it needs to be taken at a fair old lick, when it can be wonderful

And the string quartet is an absolute stonker

Ah, I'm with you on that! Along with the violin sonata and Prelude Aria and Finale for piano (and to a somewhat lesser extent the piano quintet), one of his best works, methinks!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Ah, I'm with you on that! Along with the violin sonata and Prelude Aria and Finale for piano (and to a somewhat lesser extent the piano quintet), one of his best works, methinks!

I agree (but with less of a caveat about the Piano 5tet) - I rather enjoy the Symphony, but I much prefer the Chamber works.

[visualnickmos]

A much-maligned work, unfortunately. If done well, it can be fabulous; if not, it can be awful, 'Franckly'.

My 'likes' are Maazel, Munch, Martinon...... and Beecham. Klemperer sounds an enticing investigation. Oh - and I have Silvestri. Anyone know Cluytens in this?

This is a work which although not a 'must have lots of versions' is strangely addictive.... am I talking rubbish? Probably

PS I like Bernstein (Sony) and Ormandy (also Sony)

[Barbirollians]

I like it but also have not ever heard it in concert.

My favourite remains the CSO /Monteux but the Boult,Munch , Cantelli ,Barbirolli in Prague and Silvestri are all good.

Beecham's recording has always sounded harsh and raucous to me - for such a great conductor of French music I have always wondered whether the recording is to blame .

[visualnickmos]

.....Beecham's recording has always sounded harsh and raucous to me - for such a great conductor of French music I have always wondered whether the recording is to blame .

I have thought the same thing - it is a 'good' CD, for sure but is it truly a 'great' recording?

[visualnickmos]

It was the FNO2 Bernstein, with the worst of of the worse of DG's incompetent digital recording quality at that time. The DG effect was long lasting, and it was only relatively recently that I acquired two new recordings that restored my faith in the work.

Do you know the earlier (I think) Bernstein recording on Sony? I have it, and although it's quite old now, it is quite 'vital'

Somewhat surprisingly, DG did seem to produce quite a few dud recordings in the 90s.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It surprises me to discover that I have four recordings of the work: Furtwangler, Karajan, Barenboim and Munch. I rarely play them (the most recent was Munch's a couple of years ago) but it's always a pleasure when I do.

It did occur to me that the decline in the popularity of the Franck Symphony seems to coincide with the emergence and growth of those of Mahler and Bruckner. I don't know if that's significant.

[jayne lee wilson]

If the conductor attempts to turn the symphony into French Bruckner, the whole project falls apart. Rather like Rachmaninov symphony no. 2 it needs to be taken at a fair old lick, when it can be wonderful

And the string quartet is an absolute stonker

Yes, that's why I love Paray so much - the original, sonically-stunning Mercury CD couples the Franck with Rachmaninov's 2nd, utterly spectacular in the same French fashion... but you'll have to live with those cuts... (But it's SO worth it! Honestly!).

Those great chamber works - Quartet, Quintet, Violin Sonata - are gathered together for worship on a gorgeous Ysaye Quartet own-label issue (YR03). It comes in a luxurious book-style presentation a la Andante, but never mind that - the performances are marvellous, the sound both rich and clear.

The German-issue DG Masters CD of the Franck, c/w a really show-stopping Roussel 3rd, doesn't sound too bad here, especially if I use a steeply rolled-off filter on it. It's a little bit thick and some climaxes can bludgeon the listener at too high a volume, but it is set back in the hall and that space and reverberance helps. Overall it's warm and fulfillingly full with a notably strong bass-line, the upper strings scything through the texture, Late Lenny doing what late Lenny did best. As for the Roussel 3 - a true classic that makes you laugh and cry in all the right places..

[Tevot]

Hello there,

I heard the Franck Symphony for the first time on LP sometime in the late 70s. The most surreal occasion I heard it was in November '85 played at the Harvey Court Bar in Cambridge. The barmaid was a fan - and she would have had my heart had she chosen to take it It is a lovely work imho... So too the Violin Sonata - or rather the final movement - it sings, it has space, it flies - whereas the previous two at least to me seem like an academic exercise or prelude to the "real music" - or at least the music that speaks and touches the soul.

I wonder what other people think? Please feel free to shoot me down

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Nick Armstrong]

My one live experience of it was a student performance by the orchestra at my sons 6 th form college, and very good live it was.

Ditto, only it was me playing the trombone as a student Alas it rather put me off the piece

And the Franck, I must say I've never liked - I just don't like Franck's chromatic 'finger-print'. I persevered for a while - my parents loved it; and when Bernstein brought out a 'live' reading on DG Digital† in the early '80s with the ON de France, I bought it on cassette... but ... *meh*

I've revisited it lately from the 70s 'Concertgebouw' boxset - Ancerl's live reading is very good but...

No, not a piece for me.






† V interesting:

I wonder whether the first CD version of the Franck D Minor put people off the work as much as it did me. It was the FNO2 Bernstein, with the worst of of the worse of DG's incompetent digital recording quality at that time. The DG effect was long lasting, and it was only relatively recently that I acquired two new recordings that restored my faith in the work.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... and when Bernstein brought out a 'live' reading on DG Digital† in the early '80s with the ON de France, I bought it on cassette... but ... *meh*

The very same version.

[jayne lee wilson]

Following up post 24 and combing through the Gramophone archive, it seems no-one had a serious problem with the DG ONF Bernstein. EG's review of the LP in 12/82 had minor reservations but was still very positive; comparing LP to CD, Sounds in Retrospect for 6/83 noted the improvement in definition and stronger bass on the CD. JS in 10/95 had only praise for the DG Masters Roussel 3 coupling I mentioned above, commenting that the ONF Franck was "much more alluringly recorded" than the 1959 NY account...

Finally JS - one of the master reviewers of Franch rep - did the Collection article on the Franck D Minor in 3/99. He said he'd "give Monteux his five cents" , but had high praise for Paray, Dutoit, and yes, Karajan. He delighted greatly in his new discovery of the RCOA/Van Otterloo one too, with its vintage Amsterdam sound...

In this excellent piece, Swain draws fascinating parallels with Franck's exact contemporary, Bruckner (each admired the other's work) and quotes Franck saying "Mon orgue, c'est mon orchestre"...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Following up post 24 and combing through the Gramophone archive, it seems no-one had a serious problem with the DG ONF Bernstein. EG's review of the LP in 12/82 had minor reservations but was still very positive; comparing LP to CD...
.

EG positively gushed about that first batch of CDs, so "minor reservations" from him is like being condemned to death.

Anyway, the sound is horrible.

[jayne lee wilson]

EG positively gushed about that first batch of CDs, so "minor reservations" from him is like being condemned to death.

Anyway, the sound is horrible.

Well, I'll be playing both Franck and Roussel later off the DG Masters and expect to be thrilled once again....

Please note EG's comments were about the LP, but which CD issue is the object of your bile, EA? The DG Masters with the Kandinsky (I hope not), or an earlier one - with what cover?
(The Masters coupling has just reappeared at budget price btw, on DG Virtuoso...)