John Ogdon - Living with Genius

[Dave2002]

Well at least you did not type Oxdon.

I typed various things and something odd happened with this site, which would then not let me edit the post, or delete it! Hopefully now fixed, and duplicate (almost) posts removed.

[amateur51]

Too late I'm afraid ...

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?12162-John-Ogdon-programme-BBC-Four

And it's Ogdon if you're using the search facility

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That's four (4) threads I've merged this evening to date about this documentary.
Please can we not start any more?

[Tapiola]

I finally caught up with this programme last night. I found it haunting (watching the archival material of the man) and unsettling (watching his wife) in equal measure. I agree with Caliban about the moving contributions of Rodney Friend. And it was amazing to watch the all too brief footage of an ecstatically applauding Shostakovich at the 1962 Tchaikovsky competition as he greets Ashkenazy.

I saw Ogdon just once, as a young teenager, in the Ulster Hall (this was some time in the mid 80s). He was performing the Liszt Concerto No 1. I had never heard of Ogdon before and knew Liszt's piano music only by reputation. I can still recall the shambling gait and benign smile as he walked onto the stage.

I'm not sure what I was expecting to hear, but remember being slightly underwhelmed by the music - perhaps I was expecting more fireworks? With the passage of time, I suppose I realise that Ogdon played this virtuoso work so seemingly effortlessly that my naive teenage mind was rather bemused at the lack of (expected) histrionics.

This concert is still one of my most treasured musical memories.

Poor, poor John.

[amateur51]

Poor, poor John.

Too true Taps and so badly dealt with by his wife, his agent, and the medical profession, as Rodney Friend so movingly attested. These days his diabetes would have been tested for as a matter of course and his mental health would have been flagged up as his father suffered from schizophrenia. What impact today's smoking ban would have had on him is anyone's guess - he'd have taken more exercise in the open air perhaps?

I was delighted to see Ashkenazy & Donohoe both looking well and making important contributions. I wonder if Donohoe has been influenced by Ogdon's story in his career choices, a marvellous musician.

Poor Bryce Morrison was a bit of a shock to see, and it seemed to me that he got the tragedy of Ogdon's life in the halfway house completely wrong, suggesting that Ogdon was lonely. The film showed Ogdon to be completely as ease there, greeted by friends on his return, discussing music that he had heard, his face unshaven he seemed as happy as could be expected on that medication regime.

Another shock was seeing Richard Ogdon who was the spitting image of his father sans beard. I hope that his health is good.

But perhaps the biggest shock of all was the early arrival of Brian Masters, author of 'studies' of serial killers Dennis Nilsen and Jeffrey Dahmer.

A very worthwhile film I thought.

[Conchis]

I'm not sure fingers should be pointed at Brenda, who obviously suffered a lot. It must be remembered that J.O.'s illness was much less understood then than it is today.

I'd be intrigued to sample the three (or was it four?) operas that J.O. composed. His Piano Concerto is good stuff, I reckon.

[ardcarp]

I'm not sure fingers should be pointed at Brenda, who obviously suffered a lot. It must be remembered that J.O.'s illness was much less understood then than it is today.

When I saw the film first time around, I was left with the impression that Brenda was a scary, pushy, social-climbing and manipulative figure. It was easy to draw the conclusion that she may have been responsible for JO's decline in mental health. Second time around, I saw her as more scared than scary; anxious to protect herself, yes, but also still bearing the scars of someone having dealt with a very sick person. A serious mental health problem (depression, psychosis, schizophrenia) can put a huge strain on a carer, especially so if the carer is a close family member. Those who have not experienced these difficulties will find it hard to understand why sufferers cannot just 'snap out of it' given a bit of love and sympathy. We cannot divine the truth about Brenda (or John for that matter) from a mere TV programme.

Edit: I see I'm repeating myself a bit from a much earlier post

[Barbirollians]

When I saw the film first time around, I was left with the impression that Brenda was a scary, pushy, social-climbing and manipulative figure. It was easy to draw the conclusion that she may have been responsible for JO's decline in mental health. Second time around, I saw her as more scared than scary; anxious to protect herself, yes, but also still bearing the scars of someone having dealt with a very sick person. A serious mental health problem (depression, psychosis, schizophrenia) can put a huge strain on a carer, especially so if the carer is a close family member. Those who have not experienced these difficulties will find it hard to understand why sufferers cannot just 'snap out of it' given a bit of love and sympathy. We cannot divine the truth about Brenda (or John for that matter) from a mere TV programme.

Edit: I see I'm repeating myself a bit from a much earlier post

She appears to be fairly treated in Piano Man although she still does not come across well .

[johnb]

I agree that Brenda Lucas (and the children) must have been in an extremely difficult situation, one which she was ill equipped to deal with. Nevertheless there were comfortable incidents that do cast a certain light on her, for example the Steinway D that JP Getty Jnr gave John Ogdon found its way into BL's basement flat, leaving JO with an upright. Also, when the Musician's Benevolent Fund made a donation to John Ogdon (when he was seriously ill and the Ogdon's were in debt) Brenda Lucas splashed it on a fur coat. It also seems difficult to believe that JO (rather than BL) drove the extravagant high life that the Ogdon's had before his breakdown.

[johnb]

I never saw John Ogdon perform but I have recently learnt that the music master (David Ellis) at the school I attended arranged for JO to perform for the school. It would almost definitely have been during my time there and I am amazed that I have no recollection of the event and saddened that I missed such an opportunity.

It also says a lot about JO that he was willing to give a recital for a not very outstanding Grammar School.

[secondfiddle]

I never saw John Ogdon perform but I have recently learnt that the music master (David Ellis) at the school I attended arranged for JO to perform for the school. It would almost definitely have been during my time there and I am amazed that I have no recollection of the event and saddened that I missed such an opportunity.

It also says a lot about JO that he was willing to give a recital for a not very outstanding Grammar School.

I saw John Ogdon play Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum at the QEH in, I think, 1988, an astonishing performance. Although, sadly, that was not to my knowledge recorded, it would be good if R3 would repeat Ogdon playing Messiaen's Vingt Regards at the Cheltenham Festival c. 1962 if I remember correctly, that I listened into. In 1992 in the 'Mining the Archive' series in a programme on Ogdon they played again the first five movements so the whole performance presumably exists. I also saw him play the Bliss Piano Concerto at the 1966 Proms with Bliss conducting, another wonderful, memorable performance.

[ahinton]

I saw John Ogdon play Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum at the QEH in, I think, 1988, an astonishing performance. Although, sadly, that was not to my knowledge recorded, it would be good if R3 would repeat Ogdon playing Messiaen's Vingt Regards at the Cheltenham Festival c. 1962 if I remember correctly, that I listened into. In 1992 in the 'Mining the Archive' series in a programme on Ogdon they played again the first five movements so the whole performance presumably exists. I also saw him play the Bliss Piano Concerto at the 1966 Proms with Bliss conducting, another wonderful, memorable performance.

The excellent Park Lane Group put on that performance and no, it wasn't recorded but John had already recoded the Sorabji earlier and that recording was released the year after that performance, a few months after the composer's death and a few months before John's own.