Does it matter what opera singers look like?

[amateur51]

It's notable that five male critics wrote similar unpleasant things. That seems to indicate a bit of a problem, unless they all consulted each other. The fault seems to me that they were incredibly personal and rude, not that they criticised the casting, which is a reasonable thing to do.

I'm inclined to think that these men met in an interval, railed against the Octavian, hooted with mirth at their merry japes and bon mots at the woman's expense, had another scoop of champagne & that's what they remembered when the time came to write their reviews. It must be fairly boring writing opera reviews so when your mates comes up with a 'new line' then the temptation is to go for it. Sadly the copy was, as Mary says, 'incredibly personal and rude'. Was the Arts Editor on sabbatical at each newspaper too?

[Mary Chambers]

Matthew Bourne's company Adventures in Motion Pictures gave us all-male swans and cygnets and very wonderful they were too in the context of his production.

Just goes to show ...

But they were still beautiful.....as far as I remember.

True, if I hadn't known it was to be an 'all male Swan Lake', it might have been a bit of a shock.

[amateur51]

But they were still beautiful.....as far as I remember.

True, if I hadn't known it was to be an 'all male Swan Lake', it might have been a bit of a shock.

Beautiful indeed Mary. I recall vividly the shock of my first seeing this production which delved deeply into the psychodrama of the piece

[vinteuil]

I'm inclined to think that these men met in an interval, railed against the Octavian, hooted with mirth at their merry japes and bon mots at the woman's expense, had another scoop of champagne & that's what they remembered when the time came to write their reviews. It must be fairly boring writing opera reviews so when your mates comes up with a 'new line' then the temptation is to go for it. :

I doubt it. As Richd: Morrison says -

"The five reviews differed in the words they used, obviously. Whatever else opera critics may do, they don’t compare notes in the interval. Most of us nod curtly at each other. We are competitors, after all, and it’s rare that we agree in print about anything. In this case, however, all the reviews concurred on one point: the notion of this Octavian being an object of sexual desire by the (in this production very glamorous) Marschallin seemed well beyond the normal suspension of disbelief."

I don't go to the opera often; I far prefer good CDs at home with the score/libretto. But if I were to go to the opera, I think I wd be justified in a judgment as to what the performers looked like as well as what they sounded like. That's what they're there for.

I am very happy to listen to performers who may happen to "look wrong". I am less likely to be happy looking at performers who look wrong.

[Lento]

My main concern is that if there are no fat ladies in operas they will never end.

[amateur51]

I doubt it. As Richd: Morrison says -

"The five reviews differed in the words they used, obviously. Whatever else opera critics may do, they don’t compare notes in the interval. Most of us nod curtly at each other. We are competitors, after all, and it’s rare that we agree in print about anything. In this case, however, all the reviews concurred on one point: the notion of this Octavian being an object of sexual desire by the (in this production very glamorous) Marschallin seemed well beyond the normal suspension of disbelief."

I don't go to the opera often; I far prefer good CDs at home with the score/libretto. But if I were to go to the opera, I think I wd be justified in a judgment as to what the performers looked like as well as what they sounded like. That's what they're there for.

I am very happy to listen to performers who may happen to "look wrong". I am less likely to be happy looking at performers who look wrong.

Armistead Maupin covered a lot of this ' desirablity of the non-conformist' territory in his rather wonderful novel Maybe the Moon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Maybe-Moon-Armistead-Maupin/dp/0552998753/ref=sr_1_16?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400767721&sr=1-16&keywords=Armistead+Maupin

[amateur51]

I doubt it. As Richd: Morrison says -

"The five reviews differed in the words they used, obviously. Whatever else opera critics may do, they don’t compare notes in the interval. ..."

I refer m'noble and learned friend to The Wisdom of Ms Mandy Rice-Davies

[vinteuil]

I am less likely to be happy looking at performers who look wrong.

... it does seem that this production was keen for the audience to "notice" the physical attributes of the performers. Richd: Morrison again -

"As it happens, this very production of Der Rosenkavalier offers a classic case of such hypocrisy. The curtain goes up on the Marschallin, played by Kate Royal, gyrating — totally naked — in a shower of glitter. What is that except a blatant incitement for the audience (and critics) to take an interest in the bodies on stage as well as the voices? It’s a none-too-subtle way of saying, “Wow, this Marschallin has a great physique as well as a great voice.” In which case it’s surely perfectly legitimate for critics to point out the oddity of this glamorous lady being apparently besotted with a boy who looks . . . well, let’s not rake it all up again. I don’t think the opera world can have it both ways. It can’t use bare flesh to attract and titillate audiences and grab headlines, then forbid reviewers from commenting on what singers look like"

[amateur51]

... it does seem that this production was keen for the audience to "notice" the physical attributes of the performers. Richd: Morrison again -

"As it happens, this very production of Der Rosenkavalier offers a classic case of such hypocrisy. The curtain goes up on the Marschallin, played by Kate Royal, gyrating — totally naked — in a shower of glitter. What is that except a blatant incitement for the audience (and critics) to take an interest in the bodies on stage as well as the voices? It’s a none-too-subtle way of saying, “Wow, this Marschallin has a great physique as well as a great voice.” In which case it’s surely perfectly legitimate for critics to point out the oddity of this glamorous lady being apparently besotted with a boy who looks . . . well, let’s not rake it all up again. I don’t think the opera world can have it both ways. It can’t use bare flesh to attract and titillate audiences and grab headlines, then forbid reviewers from commenting on what singers look like"

Lord Healey's Law of Holes applies, I feel.

[vinteuil]

Lord Healey's Law of Holes applies, I feel.

... no, ammy. Your Mandy Rice Davies and Denis Healey references are poor rhetoric here.

Why should the visual attributes as well as the vocal attributes of performers who put themselves on the stage not be the appropriate subjects of such criticism?

[amateur51]

... no, ammy. Your Mandy Rice Davies and Denis Healey references are poor rhetoric here.

Why should the visual attributes as well as the vocal attributes of performers who put themselves on the stage not be the appropriate subjects of such criticism?

I refer m'learned and noble friend to my earlier conspiracy theory which the Rice-Davies reference supports

Can you explain to me how/why opera critics are 'competitors', as Mr Whitehouse avers.. Does anyone buy a Murdoch title instead of a Barclays Bros title on the strength of their opera critic? This suggestion seems to be a case of a group of people having les idées audessus de ses gares

[vinteuil]

... come on, ammy - I say again :

Why should the visual attributes as well as the vocal attributes of performers who put themselves on the stage not be the appropriate subjects of criticism?

[amateur51]

... come on, ammy - I say again :

Why should the visual attributes as well as the vocal attributes of performers who put themselves on the stage not be the appropriate subjects of criticism?

What has gone before qualifies your use of the term appropriate, vints.

It was bitchy and sexist and unnecessary.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It was bitchy and sexist and unnecessary.

I would agree - I don't think that describing Octavian as "dumpy" valid/appropriate/relevant criticism. As for the "if there's a point, let's miss it" Mr Morrison:

“Richard’s been called a misogynist — on Twitter!” a friend told my wife. I’m afraid she laughed a lot. If there’s one thing my wife and my ex-wife would agree upon, it's that I love women not too little but too well."

Some of his best friends are ...

[vinteuil]

It was bitchy and sexist and unnecessary.

.

... well I enjoy "bitchy" criticism. And I enjoy much criticism that others may deem "unnecessary". I remain unconvinced that this criticism was fundamentally "sexist".