Something for a Friday: All of Bach

[silvestrione]

Perhaps it's time to bring up once more Mauricio Kagel's claim that "not many people believe in God any more but every musician believes in J S Bach".

I don't find myself immediately attracted to the sound of organ music in general, but the problem is that so much wonderful music has been written for the instrument (and not just by Bach of course) that often I feel I just have to get myself over that threshold somehow, and usually I find it's worthwhile. I think a lot of aversion to organ music has to do with the drab associations it conjures up. For example, my OH, having been brought up in an Orthodox environment where churches don't contain organs, is happy to listen to any amount of organ music, viewing it instead as something rather exotic and special. Last time I was in Leipzig a few years ago I attended a choral/organ concert at the Thomaskirche; I didn't have any choice about the date so it happened not to involve any Bach, but I have to say I was something akin to transported by the performance of L'Ascension that formed the programme's climax.

Yes it may well be to do with associations. I was a choirboy in a thriving Anglican 'high' church, and imbibed almost with mother's milk the sounds of the organ, and the way music was an essential part of the yearly rhythm ( not singing the Gloria in Lent, etc. which seemed a long time to me then! Then the main Easter and Christmas hymns, the seasonal anthems, Stainer's Crucifixion, which i thought wonderful.). As I lost my belief, I started learning to play the organ, with a friend who played the Bach Prelude and Fugue in B minor well, and 'Dieu Parmi Nous' pretty well...But I can't listen to organ music on record, I have to be in a church! (No, that's wrong, I listen to the Bach Christmas part of the Orgelbuchlein every year...must diig it out)

[Joseph K]

Perhaps it's time to bring up once more Mauricio Kagel's claim that "not many people believe in God any more but every musician believes in J S Bach".

I don't find myself immediately attracted to the sound of organ music in general, but the problem is that so much wonderful music has been written for the instrument (and not just by Bach of course) that often I feel I just have to get myself over that threshold somehow, and usually I find it's worthwhile. I think a lot of aversion to organ music has to do with the drab associations it conjures up. For example, my OH, having been brought up in an Orthodox environment where churches don't contain organs, is happy to listen to any amount of organ music, viewing it instead as something rather exotic and special. Last time I was in Leipzig a few years ago I attended a choral/organ concert at the Thomaskirche; I didn't have any choice about the date so it happened not to involve any Bach, but I have to say I was something akin to transported by the performance of L'Ascension that formed the programme's climax.

I have L'Ascension lined up for listening later.

I've never felt the organ was a drab instrument, though I'm just as likely to associate it with Larry Young as I am with Bach.

[Padraig]

10.12.21 Joseph K
Bach Violin Sonata in F minor BWV 1018

I'll be having another listen to the Mass in B minor later, JK. Trying to keep up with the schedule!

I thought the sonata sounded different from my expectation of a composition of this kind by Bach. I felt some harmonies were unexpected - sort of 'modern' for the time. This had the effect for me of losing the run of the music in the faster movements, and I'll go back to them again. But the first Largo was all I would have expected, and the combination of violin and harpsichord, as well as being novel, was perfect for what in Irish traditional music is a Slow Air, as adored by players and singers.

I was listening earlier to a Slow Air, which activity no doubt somehow crept into my current post, and if you like you can hear it on Irish Friday where I am about to post it.

[RichardB]

I've never felt the organ was a drab instrument, though I'm just as likely to associate it with Larry Young as I am with Bach.

I've never really thought of the electric organ as being the same kind of thing at all! - for me the drabness is to do with church services rather than the sound of the instrument, although there's also the way the church acoustic can tend to blur details I would rather be hearing. The first organ recording that made me immediately love the sound of the instrument was Olivier Latry's Messiaen set.

That video of the Mass in G minor is excellent, thanks for the tip there, I've always liked those small masses, they're assembled out of movements of other works of course, but then so is a lot of the B minor Mass too.

[Joseph K]

10.12.21 Joseph K
Bach Violin Sonata in F minor BWV 1018

I'll be having another listen to the Mass in B minor later, JK. Trying to keep up with the schedule!

I thought the sonata sounded different from my expectation of a composition of this kind by Bach. I felt some harmonies were unexpected - sort of 'modern' for the time. This had the effect for me of losing the run of the music in the faster movements, and I'll go back to them again. But the first Largo was all I would have expected, and the combination of violin and harpsichord, as well as being novel, was perfect for what in Irish traditional music is a Slow Air, as adored by players and singers.

I was listening earlier to a Slow Air, which activity no doubt somehow crept into my current post, and if you like you can hear it on Irish Friday where I am about to post it.

Thanks for this post, Padraig - you've made me want to give the violin-harpsichord piece another listen.

I've never really thought of the electric organ as being the same kind of thing at all! - for me the drabness is to do with church services rather than the sound of the instrument, although there's also the way the church acoustic can tend to blur details I would rather be hearing. The first organ recording that made me immediately love the sound of the instrument was Olivier Latry's Messiaen set.

That video of the Mass in G minor is excellent, thanks for the tip there, I've always liked those small masses, they're assembled out of movements of other works of course, but then so is a lot of the B minor Mass too.

Yes, as the helpful notes state, the mass could be played throughout the year rather a specific day for a cantata. You're welcome.

[RichardB]

Bach's sonatas for violin and harpsichord are relatively little-known gems in his output. (Leila Schayegh and Jörg Halubek on Glossa for preference these days, though there are many fine recordings.)

[Mandryka]

10.12.21 Joseph K
Bach Violin Sonata in F minor BWV 1018

I'll be having another listen to the Mass in B minor later, JK. Trying to keep up with the schedule!

I thought the sonata sounded different from my expectation of a composition of this kind by Bach. I felt some harmonies were unexpected - sort of 'modern' for the time. This had the effect for me of losing the run of the music in the faster movements, and I'll go back to them again. But the first Largo was all I would have expected, and the combination of violin and harpsichord, as well as being novel, was perfect for what in Irish traditional music is a Slow Air, as adored by players and singers.

I was listening earlier to a Slow Air, which activity no doubt somehow crept into my current post, and if you like you can hear it on Irish Friday where I am about to post it.

I think that particular performance of the violin sonata is very characterful. There’s been an interest recently to go back to what people thought about the emotional implications of key signatures in the c17 and early c18, and then use those ideas to determine the mood of a piece in performance. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sato and Ares are aware of this sort of thinking.

As far as whether it feels modern or not, Bach’s music IS modern! And yes, violin and harpsichord is nice but it’s not easy to balance. There’s a danger that it becomes the violinist’s show, which is not a good idea in quite a few of the movements of the sonatas. I think these sonatas work really well with violin and organ.

[Padraig]

And yes, violin and harpsichord is nice but it’s not easy to balance. There’s a danger that it becomes the violinist’s show, which is not a good idea in quite a few of the movements of the sonatas. I think these sonatas work really well with violin and organ.

Thanks for those observations, Mandryka. I do recall discussions about mood and key signatures, now that you mention it! I remember too, noting how effective the chamber organ can be in baroque instrumental music, and so I see what you mean by balance. Mind you, I always think Sato is a player very considerate of his fellows.

[RichardB]

violin and harpsichord is nice but it’s not easy to balance.

Actually I've never had that experience. The violin as it existed and as it was played in the early 18th century combines quite naturally with the harpsichord. Of course such music would be played in relatively small rooms rather than concert halls.

[Joseph K]

[Padraig]

Thanks JK. Some Merry pranks with cello and bassoon, eh? That Julia sure is a stalwart for them all.

[Joseph K]

[Joseph K]

[Mandryka]

This is a really interesting piece of music. The opening section is a fairly bog standard fugue in a style which was becoming fashionable in the middle of the 18th century. The middle section lets the counterpoint go completely wild, this is an old style, dissonance relished, counterpoint takes the upper hand in the music's construction, and the harmonies follow. And then the final section -- everything becomes totally harmonious again, and it's so much richer and more interesting than the opening A part. The last part is Bach saying he can do the modern style better than anyone; the middle section is Bach saying that he can do the old style better than anyone. The opening section is Bach saying that this is how not to write music.

Very nice performance.

[Padraig]

I have lost track of Bach Fridays - this one came up on my you tube, and I have located it on All Of Bach.

https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-911/