Something for a Friday: All of Bach

[Mandryka]

10.12.21 Joseph K
Bach Violin Sonata in F minor BWV 1018

I'll be having another listen to the Mass in B minor later, JK. Trying to keep up with the schedule!

I thought the sonata sounded different from my expectation of a composition of this kind by Bach. I felt some harmonies were unexpected - sort of 'modern' for the time. This had the effect for me of losing the run of the music in the faster movements, and I'll go back to them again. But the first Largo was all I would have expected, and the combination of violin and harpsichord, as well as being novel, was perfect for what in Irish traditional music is a Slow Air, as adored by players and singers.

I was listening earlier to a Slow Air, which activity no doubt somehow crept into my current post, and if you like you can hear it on Irish Friday where I am about to post it.

I think that particular performance of the violin sonata is very characterful. There’s been an interest recently to go back to what people thought about the emotional implications of key signatures in the c17 and early c18, and then use those ideas to determine the mood of a piece in performance. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sato and Ares are aware of this sort of thinking.

As far as whether it feels modern or not, Bach’s music IS modern! And yes, violin and harpsichord is nice but it’s not easy to balance. There’s a danger that it becomes the violinist’s show, which is not a good idea in quite a few of the movements of the sonatas. I think these sonatas work really well with violin and organ.

[RichardB]

Bach's sonatas for violin and harpsichord are relatively little-known gems in his output. (Leila Schayegh and Jörg Halubek on Glossa for preference these days, though there are many fine recordings.)

[Joseph K]

10.12.21 Joseph K
Bach Violin Sonata in F minor BWV 1018

I'll be having another listen to the Mass in B minor later, JK. Trying to keep up with the schedule!

I thought the sonata sounded different from my expectation of a composition of this kind by Bach. I felt some harmonies were unexpected - sort of 'modern' for the time. This had the effect for me of losing the run of the music in the faster movements, and I'll go back to them again. But the first Largo was all I would have expected, and the combination of violin and harpsichord, as well as being novel, was perfect for what in Irish traditional music is a Slow Air, as adored by players and singers.

I was listening earlier to a Slow Air, which activity no doubt somehow crept into my current post, and if you like you can hear it on Irish Friday where I am about to post it.

Thanks for this post, Padraig - you've made me want to give the violin-harpsichord piece another listen.

I've never really thought of the electric organ as being the same kind of thing at all! - for me the drabness is to do with church services rather than the sound of the instrument, although there's also the way the church acoustic can tend to blur details I would rather be hearing. The first organ recording that made me immediately love the sound of the instrument was Olivier Latry's Messiaen set.

That video of the Mass in G minor is excellent, thanks for the tip there, I've always liked those small masses, they're assembled out of movements of other works of course, but then so is a lot of the B minor Mass too.

Yes, as the helpful notes state, the mass could be played throughout the year rather a specific day for a cantata. You're welcome.

[RichardB]

I've never felt the organ was a drab instrument, though I'm just as likely to associate it with Larry Young as I am with Bach.

I've never really thought of the electric organ as being the same kind of thing at all! - for me the drabness is to do with church services rather than the sound of the instrument, although there's also the way the church acoustic can tend to blur details I would rather be hearing. The first organ recording that made me immediately love the sound of the instrument was Olivier Latry's Messiaen set.

That video of the Mass in G minor is excellent, thanks for the tip there, I've always liked those small masses, they're assembled out of movements of other works of course, but then so is a lot of the B minor Mass too.

[Padraig]

10.12.21 Joseph K
Bach Violin Sonata in F minor BWV 1018

I'll be having another listen to the Mass in B minor later, JK. Trying to keep up with the schedule!

I thought the sonata sounded different from my expectation of a composition of this kind by Bach. I felt some harmonies were unexpected - sort of 'modern' for the time. This had the effect for me of losing the run of the music in the faster movements, and I'll go back to them again. But the first Largo was all I would have expected, and the combination of violin and harpsichord, as well as being novel, was perfect for what in Irish traditional music is a Slow Air, as adored by players and singers.

I was listening earlier to a Slow Air, which activity no doubt somehow crept into my current post, and if you like you can hear it on Irish Friday where I am about to post it.

[Joseph K]

Perhaps it's time to bring up once more Mauricio Kagel's claim that "not many people believe in God any more but every musician believes in J S Bach".

I don't find myself immediately attracted to the sound of organ music in general, but the problem is that so much wonderful music has been written for the instrument (and not just by Bach of course) that often I feel I just have to get myself over that threshold somehow, and usually I find it's worthwhile. I think a lot of aversion to organ music has to do with the drab associations it conjures up. For example, my OH, having been brought up in an Orthodox environment where churches don't contain organs, is happy to listen to any amount of organ music, viewing it instead as something rather exotic and special. Last time I was in Leipzig a few years ago I attended a choral/organ concert at the Thomaskirche; I didn't have any choice about the date so it happened not to involve any Bach, but I have to say I was something akin to transported by the performance of L'Ascension that formed the programme's climax.

I have L'Ascension lined up for listening later.

I've never felt the organ was a drab instrument, though I'm just as likely to associate it with Larry Young as I am with Bach.

[silvestrione]

Perhaps it's time to bring up once more Mauricio Kagel's claim that "not many people believe in God any more but every musician believes in J S Bach".

I don't find myself immediately attracted to the sound of organ music in general, but the problem is that so much wonderful music has been written for the instrument (and not just by Bach of course) that often I feel I just have to get myself over that threshold somehow, and usually I find it's worthwhile. I think a lot of aversion to organ music has to do with the drab associations it conjures up. For example, my OH, having been brought up in an Orthodox environment where churches don't contain organs, is happy to listen to any amount of organ music, viewing it instead as something rather exotic and special. Last time I was in Leipzig a few years ago I attended a choral/organ concert at the Thomaskirche; I didn't have any choice about the date so it happened not to involve any Bach, but I have to say I was something akin to transported by the performance of L'Ascension that formed the programme's climax.

Yes it may well be to do with associations. I was a choirboy in a thriving Anglican 'high' church, and imbibed almost with mother's milk the sounds of the organ, and the way music was an essential part of the yearly rhythm ( not singing the Gloria in Lent, etc. which seemed a long time to me then! Then the main Easter and Christmas hymns, the seasonal anthems, Stainer's Crucifixion, which i thought wonderful.). As I lost my belief, I started learning to play the organ, with a friend who played the Bach Prelude and Fugue in B minor well, and 'Dieu Parmi Nous' pretty well...But I can't listen to organ music on record, I have to be in a church! (No, that's wrong, I listen to the Bach Christmas part of the Orgelbuchlein every year...must diig it out)

[RichardB]

Perhaps it's time to bring up once more Mauricio Kagel's claim that "not many people believe in God any more but every musician believes in J S Bach".

I don't find myself immediately attracted to the sound of organ music in general, but the problem is that so much wonderful music has been written for the instrument (and not just by Bach of course) that often I feel I just have to get myself over that threshold somehow, and usually I find it's worthwhile. I think a lot of aversion to organ music has to do with the drab associations it conjures up. For example, my OH, having been brought up in an Orthodox environment where churches don't contain organs, is happy to listen to any amount of organ music, viewing it instead as something rather exotic and special. Last time I was in Leipzig a few years ago I attended a choral/organ concert at the Thomaskirche; I didn't have any choice about the date so it happened not to involve any Bach, but I have to say I was something akin to transported by the performance of L'Ascension that formed the programme's climax.

[Joseph K]

[Joseph K]

[Keraulophone]

I mostly enjoyed the Busoni piano arrangement of all the items… Incidentally, I now know why I pained you Keraulophone, with my post, being unaware of your own closeness to the king of instruments.

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Padraig, I was pleased you liked the Busoni. Although I’ve been playing the original organ version since my early teens, Busoni’s transcription has really captivated me - I just can’t stop playing it, particularly the final reiteration of the chorale in the tenor, which of course Bach does not do. Here, it helps to have a piano with a singing tenor register, often a limitation of smaller grands. The diminished penultimate chord might seem surprising at first, but to my mind it’s a minor stroke of genius, conveying last-minute doubt of salvation. There is also the vexed question of whether the piano is a more expressive musical instrument than the organ. I once heard Marcel Dupré playing a Chopin Prelude on the organ, but it wasn’t pretty. (I don’t have an organ at home, but I do have two pianos - an indication of my preference.)

Regarding Keraulophones, they are a relatively undistinguished horny-reedy-stringy type of organ stop of gentle-to-moderate loudness, with salicional-style holed or slotted pipes, that were popular in the later C19th but have since faded away. There was a particularly characterful one in St Peter’s, Clapham Junction (now demolished), where I occasionally deputised for the organist during the school holidays. I snapped my avatar at Béziers Cathedral while on a choir tour.
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[Padraig]

This one? https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-552/
Nothing that says you have to like everything Bach wrote Padraig, and even for Bach enthusiasts the organ music may not be favoured for listening experience as the instrument isn't for everyone.

Yes, O1O, it was last Friday's All of Bach, Prelude and Fugue in E flat, BWV 552. I listened a few times.

Thanks for the response, and to cloughie, Joseph K and Keraulophone, as well. I listened to all your suggestions again and I appreciate all your efforts to convert me, or excuse me. Some Bach organ pieces appeal to me more than others, and you don't have to worry about my loyalty to Bach himself. Reprobate that I am, I mostly enjoyed the Busoni piano arrangement of all the items sent, plus, the translation Keraulophone, which I took to heart. Incidentally, I now know why I pained you Keraulophone, with my post, being unaware of your own closeness to the king of instruments.

[Keraulophone]

the passacaglia and fugue in C minor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S2pm1g70DI

The passacaglia & fugue is haunting and profound.

A unique masterpiece, going far beyond its Buxtehude model. This performance by Michel Chapuis is rather severe, and fairly typical of its late-1960s origins. There were several complaints on this MB when an insensitive recording of one of Bach's organ masterworks (was it the Fantasia in G minor?) was played one morning - it turned out to be Prof. Chapuis.

All-of-Bach's performance is more in line with current practice: https://youtu.be/zzBXZ__LN_M
Commentary by organist Reitze Smits: https://youtu.be/ekjHssVeaoo

[Joseph K]

Two of my favourite organ works -

the little fugue in G minor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbox4oi6HjA

the passacaglia and fugue in C minor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S2pm1g70DI

The passacaglia & fugue is haunting and profound.

[cloughie]

This one? https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-552/
Nothing that says you have to like everything Bach wrote Padraig, and even for Bach enthusiasts the organ music may not be favoured for listening experience as the instrument isn't for everyone.

As with most composers there will be a mix of the good, the bad and the ugly. It’s up to you where you pick!