Valery Gergiev--The Most Overrated Conductor?

[gurnemanz]

I have heard Gergiev conduct some superb performances of Russian opera with the Mariinsky. I suspect that this may be where he is at his best.

I admire him for having seen the Mariinsky through some very difficult times. Money has of course been very necessary for this; and I have often thought that this may be the reason that he has cultivated his relationship with Putin.

I cannot really comment because I've only seen him live once - Parsifal at the Barbican two years ago - which we enjoyed and was generally praised. A fine Gurnemanz, I remember. You may well be right that opera is his forte. Up till quite recently, I had none of his recordings but having decided to educate myself in Russian opera (pensioner with time on hands and having got to know Tsar's Bride amd Gambler at ROH) I have just got around to acquiring both his Rimsky and Prokofiev complete opera boxes. Not got that far yet. I started with the most exotic sounding "Kashchey the Immortal" by Rimsky which I really enjoyed, once I had hunted down the libretto + translation online - not much point in listening to it without it. (They are available quite cheaply but without texts! - - You have to do some serious googling). I have been dipping in and though I suspect I might not like him as a man, I am really looking forward to the journey ahead with Gergiev as my guide.

[Beef Oven!]

I cannot really comment because I've only seen him live once - Parsifal at the Barbican two years ago - which we enjoyed and was generally praised. A fine Gurnemanz, I remember. You may well be right that opera is his forte. Up till quite recently, I had none of his recordings but having decided to educate myself in Russian opera (pensioner with time on hands and having got to know Tsar's Bride amd Gambler at ROH) I have just got around to acquiring both his Rimsky and Prokofiev complete opera boxes. Not got that far yet. I started with the most exotic sounding "Kashchey the Immortal" by Rimsky which I really enjoyed, once I had hunted down the libretto + translation online - not much point in listening to it without it. (They are available quite cheaply but without texts! - - You have to do some serious googling). I have been dipping in and though I suspect I might not like him as a man, I am really looking forward to the journey ahead with Gergiev as my guide.

You don't know him as a man, and you never will. So don't worry too much about it, and enjoy the music (you indeed imply as much).

[Hornspieler]

Fascinating insight into orchestral psychology, HS - many thanks

Thank you for that AMS.

It's a ticklish problem - and one which I encountered when I first entered the profession and listened (too much, I fear) to what some of the old sweats had to say.

"If you want to destroy a bad conductor, just follow his beat exactly ..."
Bad advice. The audience hear only what you play and will aportion the blame on the orchestra, not the conductor.

"Never argue with a conductor - it puts him in the right and you in the wrong ..."
Good advice - but there are sometimes ways of getting a little of "one's own back":

We were playing an orchestral suite by Tchaikovsky for the first time, and I noticed an apparent discrepancy - my part had a crescendo and diminuendo in the opening bars and the other three horn players had no such markings. So I consulted Maestro Silvestri:

"Mr Silvestri. Do you want me to make crescendo and diminuendo in those opening bars?"

Silvestri shook his head.

"Oh," I thought "so the part is wrong."

"Tchaikovsky wants it."
There were titters from the 1st violins.

"Very funny "- I thought, "my chance will come some day"

It was sooner than I expected. We were rehearsing Beethoven's Leonora Nº 3 and, in the big ride out towards the end, the first horn plays the tune for eight bars and then just plays seperate crotchets in accompaniment when it gets busy.

There were some pencil markings overwritten on the stave to continue playing the tune. I ignored them.

Silvestri stopped and looked at me.

"You have sumsing written there""

I pretended to peer at the the music. "Yes" I said "There is something written here in pencil."

"Good. You play this please."

"You want me to play this?"

"Of course."

"Beethoven didn't want me to play it."

Silvestri nearly stepped back off the rostrum. Then a smile of understanding appeared on his face.

"So you play it just for me. Yes?"


You win some and you lose some.

HS

[HighlandDougie]

You win some and you lose some.

HS

More such anecdotes, please. Fascinating - and chortle-making. We should start a new Hornspieler thread especially for them.

[amateur51]

Thank you for that AMS.

It's a ticklish problem - and one which I encountered when I first entered the profession and listened (too much, I fear) to what some of the old sweats had to say.

"If you want to destroy a bad conductor, just follow his beat exactly ..."
Bad advice. The audience hear only what you play and will aportion the blame on the orchestra, not the conductor.

"Never argue with a conductor - it puts him in the right and you in the wrong ..."
Good advice - but there are sometimes ways of getting a little of "one's own back":

We were playing an orchestral suite by Tchaikovsky for the first time, and I noticed an apparent discrepancy - my part had a crescendo and diminuendo in the opening bars and the other three horn players had no such markings. So I consulted Maestro Silvestri:

"Mr Silvestri. Do you want me to make crescendo and diminuendo in those opening bars?"

Silvestri shook his head.

"Oh," I thought "so the part is wrong."

"Tchaikovsky wants it."
There were titters from the 1st violins.

"Very funny "- I thought, "my chance will come some day"

It was sooner than I expected. We were rehearsing Beethoven's Leonora Nº 3 and, in the big ride out towards the end, the first horn plays the tune for eight bars and then just plays seperate crotchets in accompaniment when it gets busy.

There were some pencil markings overwritten on the stave to continue playing the tune. I ignored them.

Silvestri stopped and looked at me.

"You have sumsing written there""

I pretended to peer at the the music. "Yes" I said "There is something written here in pencil."

"Good. You play this please."

"You want me to play this?"

"Of course."

"Beethoven didn't want me to play it."

Silvestri nearly stepped back off the rostrum. Then a smile of understanding appeared on his face.

"So you play it just for me. Yes?"


You win some and you lose some.

HS

I'd say that was deuce, HS

[alywin]

I have heard Gergiev conduct some superb performances of Russian opera with the Mariinsky. I suspect that this may be where he is at his best.

I admire him for having seen the Mariinsky through some very difficult times.

Agree with the first bit, but I certainly don't like what he appears to be doing with the ballet company, which of course internationally speaking is far more recognised than the opera.

When he conducted the complete Tchaikovsky Sleeping Beauty at the Proms a few years back, he had only flown in from Russia a couple of hours before, and the LSO played superbly.

*That* was one I was going to mention, too, although it wouldn't be the first time an orchestra had played superbly more or less off its own bat, I'm sure.

I used to be fairly favourable towards Gergiev, but have been leaning in the other direction in recent years: too many under-prepared performances with the LSO have tipped the balance, I'm afraid. Now I look at the schedule and think "It's Gergiev: do I want to go? What's he conducting? Is it Russian? Do I like it enough to take the risk anyway, without loving it so much that I'll hate it if he doesn't do a good job on it?" Plus if I were an orchestral musician I'm sure his "stick" technique would drive me mad - and if that didn't, I'm sure his habit of humming along with the music during a performance *would* (it's surprising what you pick up from the choir stalls at the RFH, sometimes).

[ardcarp]

I'm sure his "stick" technique would drive me mad

What stick technique?

[Roehre]

What stick technique?

At his first (AFAIK) appearance in the west (Concertgebouw Amsterdam, with the Concertgebouw's spare orchestra, the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic, oct 31st 1987) he used a "standard" stick.
He made such an impression then that he not only was asked for further concerts with the Radiophil (he duly obliged), but also for the Rotterdam Philharmonic, of which he became chief conductor only one year later.

[amateur51]

After attending his first (I think) UK concert at Royal Festival Hall which was a low voltage all-Wagner evening including a promised appearance by a Russian singer who didn't arrive, I've never felt the need to repeat the experience.

A few years ago friends with tickets offered them to me when they were unabe to attend his World Orchestra for Peace Prom with two Mahler symphonies neither of which impressed me much.

He is a non-essential part of my musical world either in the flesh or on a recording