Valery Gergiev--The Most Overrated Conductor?

**cloughie** · 08-05-14, 16:51

Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

I have heard a few recordings of Gergiev conducting in the past weeks and I wouldn't want to own any of them. I have never understood the appeal of this Conductor. I have heard him conduct live a few times and listened to his recordings that have come my way for the last 15 years or so. It's always superficial flash, unsubtle in your face dynamics , and Orchestral execution consistently under the standard that one would expect of world class ensembles. Perhaps my English friends who have had a greater exposure to him have a different opinion. He also seems to get mixed reviews, at best, in the magazines that I read.
Can someone suggest at least one recording by him that might change my mind? IMO, everything that I have heard from him--Stravisnsky, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich, Mahler come to mind-- is crap.

I give him the benefit of the doubt on Russian stuff but his Mahler I dislike. I think he probably gets worse as his under-rehearsed output has intensified. I have enjoyed a number of his earlier Philips recordings - his Polovtsian Dances are really good! I saw him with the Kirov Orchestra in Birmingham many years ago with Toradze playing Prokofiev 2nd Piano Concerto - thought he was going to fall of the stool! Rachmaninov Sym 2 was very good also. But as I say his recent output is not amongst the best!

**remdataram** · 08-05-14, 17:16

Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

I have heard a few recordings of Gergiev conducting in the past weeks and I wouldn't want to own any of them. I have never understood the appeal of this Conductor. I have heard him conduct live a few times and listened to his recordings that have come my way for the last 15 years or so. It's always superficial flash, unsubtle in your face dynamics , and Orchestral execution consistently under the standard that one would expect of world class ensembles. Perhaps my English friends who have had a greater exposure to him have a different opinion. He also seems to get mixed reviews, at best, in the magazines that I read.
Can someone suggest at least one recording by him that might change my mind? IMO, everything that I have heard from him--Stravisnsky, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich, Mahler come to mind-- is crap.

I'm afraid I have to agree with you, so I can't suggest any particular recording.

**Madame Suggia** · 08-05-14, 17:17

I rather like his Mussorgsky recordings..Godunov and Khovanshchina

**Nick Armstrong** · 08-05-14, 17:22

I don't 'trust' him musically from the recordings I've heard, and hence don't own any and haven't seen him live. There are far too many great musicians whom I do 'trust' for it to worry me in the least.

Not too keen on some of the company he keeps, either...

**amateur51** · 08-05-14, 17:37

Originally posted by Caliban View Post

I don't 'trust' him musically from the recordings I've heard, and hence don't own any and haven't seen him live. There are far too many great musicians whom I do 'trust' for it to worry me in the least.

Not too keen on some of the company he keeps, either...

Bold of me I know, but our absent friend salymap would remind us of his 'sweaty' look - *shudder*

**teamsaint** · 08-05-14, 17:42

there is so much music to see and hear, and of such fine quality, both recorded and live, that I see no need to energise his career, with my time, money or attention, (as Caliban alluded to).
That applies to one or two other musicians as well.

**HighlandDougie** · 08-05-14, 17:50

Originally posted by Caliban View Post

Not too keen on some of the company he keeps, either...

Me neither. Having said that, I seem to have heard him in the flesh more than a few times, from San Francisco in 1994 (Berlioz's Damnation of Faust - it was very good), through Edinburgh in 2008 (the Prokofiev symphony cycle with the LSO) and Rome in 2009 (with the Santa Cecilia Orchestra and Vadim Repin in Beethoven - rather unmemorable), with a number of evenings in the Barbican thrown in. One of the best Sacre du Printemps I've ever heard; one of the worst Jeux. He is maddeningly inconsistent but when he is on form he can produce some great performances (the Prokofiev symphonies were on the whole as good as they get). Equally .... well, let's not go there. I can think of a good number of other conductors who seem to me more deserving of the epithet "over-rated": maybe "over-stretched", which certainly is the case with the man with the toothpick-as-baton and the fluttery hands.

**Black Swan** · 08-05-14, 17:53

I agree with all the comments. I don't own recordings by him and won't. His unwillingness to speak out on human rights issues in Russia particularly discrimination against gays and his close association with Putin are enough for me to disregard him.

**pastoralguy** · 08-05-14, 17:58

Well, Mrs PG and I heard him with the LSO in the Barbican a couple of years ago and the first half was pretty poor. The Britten 'Sea Interludes...' sounded as if the orchestra was sight-reading them. The DSCH first violin concerto with Sarah Chang was notable for the occasions where soloist and conductor were in the same part of the bar at the same time! (She actually stamped her foot a couple of times in a vain attempt to get the meastro's attention).

However, after the interval came the most shattering performance of Tchaikovsky's 'Pathetique' symphony I've ever heard. The orchestra, who I suspect may have played it a couple of times before (

) appeared to be equally galvanised. Truly great!

**Beef Oven!** · 08-05-14, 17:59

I really enjoyed his Mahler cycle in London a few years back. Although 7 was a bit 'lifeless'. His performance of 6 was exhilarating and one of the best gigs I've ever been to. Having purchased the CDs, I can attest that they are in no way essential - something significant is lost outside of the hall.

Let's not forget he also gives some people the opportunity to be sanctimonious.

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 08-05-14, 18:02

I have Tchaikovsky's last 3 symphony with the VPO and Gergiev, and they are quite superb.

I don't think much of hate campaigns, and although this may not be one (I hope not anyway) there does seem to be a hint of it.

**teamsaint** · 08-05-14, 18:10

Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post

I really enjoyed his Mahler cycle in London a few years back. Although 7 was a bit 'lifeless'. His performance of 6 was exhilarating and one of the best gigs I've ever been to. Having purchased the CDs, I can attest that they are in no way essential - something significant is lost outside of the hall.

Let's not forget he also gives some people the opportunity to be sanctimonious.

I think if a person is determined to be sanctimonious, there is plenty of opportunity without resorting to using conductors as an excuse.

Generally speaking.

Is how I see it.

Heat, Kitchens, and all that.

Re EA's comment, there is a lot of difference between ignoring a persons work, and a hate campaign, obviously.

dungeon for this one, I think...the thread, not Gergiev.......

**Hornspieler** · 08-05-14, 18:16

Good afternoon, Richard

Some time ago, I started a thread asking "Is Gergiev a Good Conductor?

There was quite a lot of comment - some for and some against.

Watching him 'conduct' with a little cocktail stick in one hand and fluttering the fingers of his other, I can see no connection between him and his orchestra, BUT I watched him "presiding over" a splendid performance of Prokofiev's 7th symphony by his own Marinsky Orchestra, so I suppose he must have had some sort of influence during the rehearsals. (Siberian Salt Mines?)

Certainly there is no way that I would be able to follow his beat and, checking up the other day, I find that I have played under no less than 120 conductors during my active professional career.

HS

**Beef Oven!** · 08-05-14, 18:27

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

I have Tchaikovsky's last 3 symphony with the VPO and Gergiev, and they are quite superb.

I don't think much of hate campaigns, and although this may not be one (I hope not anyway) there does seem to be a hint of it.

Valery Gergiev--The Most Overrated Conductor?

Valery Gergiev--The Most Overrated Conductor?

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