Valery Gergiev--The Most Overrated Conductor?

[slarty]

I first saw him conducting Don Carlo at the MET in January 1998, and the next night he conducted Mahler 6 at the Avery Fisher hall with the NYPO. He was not using his cocktail stick on those nights, but the Don Carlo was a very professional job.
The Mahler was badly done, in the worst acoustic I have ever heard, and every time I have subsequently heard or seen him, it has been disappointing. His affectation with the toothpick these days is just a joke. I can't take him seriously any more.

[richardfinegold]

I have Tchaikovsky's last 3 symphony with the VPO and Gergiev, and they are quite superb.

I don't think much of hate campaigns, and although this may not be one (I hope not anyway) there does seem to be a hint of it.

I feel that I must disagree, EA. I have heard parts of 4 and 5 on Internet Radio. In both cases I did not know who the performers were until the end. I heard nothing special, just a lot of exagerated tempos and dynamics. And from what I can tell, these last 3 Tchaikovsky symphonies have generated more critical praise than any of his other recent recordings. If this is his best, then the Emperor (or Tsar, in this case) truly has no clothes.
I had deliberately left his politics out of my OP. I find them odious, but as we have said elsewhere, we value Musicians for their Musicality, not for their Politics, whatever they may be.

[Lento]

Seriously, how do orchestral players cope with a "stick technique" like that? (Also, btw, with the difference between conductors who want immediate response and those who seem to tolerate a "lag" between the stick going down and the actual sound being produced?)

[Barbirollians]

Not a pleasant individual it seems and a Putin ally but that is irrelevant as far as his conducting is concerned .

I have not seen him conduct in concert and my experience of his recordings is limited . I did think his Mahler 5 close to laughable though - at first I thought I was listening to a deliberate parody .

[visualnickmos]

I agree with all the comments. I don't own recordings by him and won't. His unwillingness to speak out on human rights issues in Russia particularly discrimination against gays and his close association with Putin are enough for me to disregard him.

I hadn't realised his about him. I'm glad I don't have many recordings from him. I may well get rid of the few that I do have.....

[visualnickmos]

.....we value Musicians for their Musicality, not for their Politics, whatever they may be

I think the last bit is rather an over-simplification, which is easy to state if you are in a position not affected by politics "whatever they may be"

[richardfinegold]

I think the last bit is rather an over-simplification, which is easy to state if you are in a position not affected by politics "whatever they may be"

It would be a topic for a different thread, at the least.
Is Gergiev well regarded in the UK? Is he in for the long haul at the LSO?

[Beef Oven!]

A lot of the posts remind me of the attitude towards Sinopoli 25 years ago (save for the political correctness/sanctimony). All the people who have met G, who don't have an axe to grind, have found him to be a warm, engaging human being, contrary to the experts in this forum.

Strikes me that whenever something a bit different comes along, the cry of 'witch' goes out.

I wonder if like Sinopoli, his art will be understood only with hindsight.

[visualnickmos]

It would be a topic for a different thread, at the least.
Is Gergiev well regarded in the UK? Is he in for the long haul at the LSO?

That is true - it would make for a very interesting (to say the least!) separate thread.

As for how he is regarded in UK; I am not really best-qualified to answer - but there are folk on here who are.

[Nick Armstrong]

Strikes me that whenever something a bit different comes along, the cry of 'witch' goes out.

You mean like, disapproval of something leading to the cry of 'sanctimony' ?

Life's full of apparent patterns, Beefy - sometimes they can be misleading...

[Beef Oven!]

You mean like, disapproval of something leading to the cry of 'sanctimony' ?

Life's full of apparent patterns, Beefy - sometimes they can be misleading...

And as for you, you started all this!

[teamsaint]

And as for you, you started all this!

but, nothing actionable as yet....

[richardfinegold]

A lot of the posts remind me of the attitude towards Sinopoli 25 years ago (save for the political correctness/sanctimony). All the people who have met G, who don't have an axe to grind, have found him to be a warm, engaging human being, contrary to the experts in this forum.

Strikes me that whenever something a bit different comes along, the cry of 'witch' goes out.

I wonder if like Sinopoli, his art will be understood only with hindsight.

I don't get the analogy with Sinopoli at all. Please elaborate.
If anything, some of the criticisms that I level at G--superficiality, all flash--remind me of criticisms that were delivered against Solti or even Bernstein. Those two Conductors had their share of artistic misfires, but they had plenty of great achievements on the positive side of the ledger.
Can we say the same about G?
I am not an expert. I am not a Musician, just a listener. It is all right with me if he is 'different' as long as the results are musically compelling. I have never---not once, in years of repeated exposure--felt that they were
I have no ax to grind with G. He might be a great guy to sit over a samovar with on a cold Moscow or Chicago night. I don't like his politics but I had made up my mind about him as a Musician before I was aware of them. I just marvel at the career that he has had when there must be so many other deserving Conductors that have never gotten the chance.

[Bryn]

Re. his musical direction, I find him a bit of a curate's egg. Re. his political friendships, Russia's leader has many supporters and friends. Where Gergiev's stand on the Georgian/Great Russian conflict is concerned, he's an Ossetian, his tribal loyalty was showing. Not fond of his Mahler or Shostakovich, but some of his Prokofiev and Stravinsky is interesting. Spreads himself far too thinly to maintain consistent musicality though, as I hear it. Don't know him personally, and don't feel any particular desire to change that situation.

[Beef Oven!]

I don't get the analogy with Sinopoli at all. Please elaborate.
If anything, some of the criticisms that I level at G--superficiality, all flash--remind me of criticisms that were delivered against Solti or even Bernstein. Those two Conductors had their share of artistic misfires, but they had plenty of great achievements on the positive side of the ledger.
Can we say the same about G?
I am not an expert. I am not a Musician, just a listener. It is all right with me if he is 'different' as long as the results are musically compelling. I have never---not once, in years of repeated exposure--felt that they were
I have no ax to grind with G. He might be a great guy to sit over a samovar with on a cold Moscow or Chicago night. I don't like his politics but I had made up my mind about him as a Musician before I was aware of them. I just marvel at the career that he has had when there must be so many other deserving Conductors that have never gotten the chance.

The criticism of Lenny didn't spill over to a personal level, in the way that it did with Sinopoli. The current attitude towards G reminds me of the attitude towards S. People couldn't understand the genius of S. There also might be reasons why G has a career as a musician that people don't understand. Then they'll just have to marvel, I suppose.