Music is not an art

[french frank]

Gillian Reynolds had some interesting comments to make last week in her radio review column:

"Roger Wright, after an unprecedented 15 years in the combined BBC posts of controller of Radio 3 and Proms director, gave his final Proms press conference last week. Talking about the many new international orchestras performing this year, he mentioned the Proms are recognised, worldwide, as a BBC production. So why, I asked, had BBC director-general Tony Hall’s recent arts manifesto not featured the Proms more prominently? Because, said Wright, music is now regarded as a separate entity, not part of the arts. Hall, together with the new director of BBC Music, Radio 2 controller Bob Shennan, will address its future in June. Music, no longer part of the arts? We live and learn."

But music is now safe in the hands of the Director of Music (and Controller of Radio 2).

[gingerjon]

A separate budget and direction for music, distinct from 'arts', may be no bad thing.

Agree it's a bit weird though.

[Honoured Guest]

Gillian Reynolds is just frittering her limited wordcount on an extended jocular comment, which is pointless as commentary or criticism.

As she well knows, no one's saying that music isn't part of the arts. It's just that the BBC has a Director of Music and a Director of Arts.

People who are concerned that classical music and the Controller of Radio 3 have now been brought within the remit of the new Director of Music would be even more concerned if there were instead a single Director of Music and Arts.

[Honoured Guest]

A separate budget and direction for music, distinct from 'arts', may be no bad thing.

Agree it's a bit weird though.

BBC Music programming is many times more extensive than BBC Arts programming, due to the audio nature of radio. (Before anyone tells me, I know that you all know this already)! I guess that's why Music has always justified being a separate department.

[Pabmusic]

I might be persuaded that music is not just an art… But that's not quite the same thing, is it?

[Flosshilde]

no one's saying that music isn't part of the arts. It's just that the BBC has a Director of Music and a Director of Arts.

So why separate it?

If music is still an art, but has a separate Director in the BBC structure, why not have a director of visual art, or literature, or dance, or theatre?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

er these are bureaucratic arrangements not a re-arrangement of ideal types nor the location of faculties and syllabus boards .... and heaven forbid that AUNT would condescend to offer a THOUGHT

[Pabmusic]

er these are bureaucratic arrangements not a re-arrangement of ideal types nor the location of faculties and syllabus boards .... and heaven forbid that AUNT would condescend to offer a THOUGHT

Whatever someone chooses to label 'arts' does not make it so - only within the limited (and not necessarily agreed) and imposed definition.

[french frank]

And, in any case, the telling bit for me was that, as a separate entity, music comes under the wing of the Controller of Radio 2 and 6 Music, wearing a new hat. With Radio 3 and the Proms getting new heads, the music remit covered by Radio 3 (and not just classical music) is going to be under a relative 'junior' in the BBC hierarchy.

[french frank]

And I'd be surprised to learn that there is a 'separate budget' for music. The way, say, classical music would get a boost to its budget would be to increase Radio 3's budget, or possibly ringfence the Proms (which seems to have happened). But it will have to pitch in with Radio 1, 1Xtra, Radio 2 and 6 Music (and the Asian Network) if there's a funding increase for 'music'.

[Honoured Guest]

We had this forum discussion when Tony Hall announced this months ago. Nothing's changed since then, except that Gillian Reynolds has made a very laboured joke.

The Directors of Music and Arts don't have a budget, but they have a remit to attempt to coordinate and influence the output of the channel controllers, etc. who do.

It's silly to say that the post of new Director of Music is junior in the BBC hierarcy because the post-holder is also Controller of three radio stations.

[eighthobstruction]

Well Jonty Claypole is promoting coverage of Glyndbourne Rosenkavalier in RT (10-16/5/14)....exceeding his thingy surely then....



....also tells us an Art competition from THE ONE SHOW....where winner will be displayed at Royal Acad' d'Arts Summer Exhib'....Though Duchess of Malfi at Globe looks good....except it's the Duchess of Malfi (of course)....Hay Lit Fest - Chris Evans will be there for R2 + THE ONE SHOW+ R6 Music

....Jonty looks a little gormless in his photo....

[french frank]

It's silly to say that the post of new Director of Music is junior in the BBC hierarcy because the post-holder is also Controller of three radio stations.

That is neither what I meant nor said. Check this:

With Radio 3 and the Proms getting new heads, the music remit covered by Radio 3 (and not just classical music) is going to be under a relative 'junior' in the BBC hierarchy.

I meant that new appointments (ie R3 and the Proms), either from outside the BBC or promotion within would be 'relatively junior' to a longstanding controller (and now Director of Music). Not that the Director of Music himself was a 'junior'.

[teamsaint]

That is neither what I meant nor said. Check this:

I meant that new appointments (ie R3 and the Proms), either from outside the BBC or promotion within would be 'relatively junior' to a longstanding controller (and now Director of Music). Not that the Director of Music himself was a 'junior'.

Clear enough first time, FF, really.

Any old how,more interestingly, where is this massive 20% increase in spending going to be directed?

All £4m of it, by my reckoning.......

Or is that off topic?

[Honoured Guest]

I meant that new appointments (ie R3 and the Proms), either from outside the BBC or promotion within would be 'relatively junior' to a longstanding controller (and now Director of Music). Not that the Director of Music himself was a 'junior'.

Oh! I've read the post and the explanation again several times and I can just about now work out what you meant.

Maybe I really agree with every other post on this forum but have also misunderstood their true meanings.