Rude conductors

[Don Petter]

A cabal?

Or, for our American readers, a chord?

[Ferretfancy]

There is of course the story of an untried conductor rehearsing the NYPO in a Mahler symphony. At the outset he addressed the players " Gentleman, we are in the presence of a great composer, and I approach this music with the utmost humility. I hope that we can all work together, and if anyone has a helpful suggestion to contribute, I am all ears."

"Sure Mac! ' came the reply, "Send for Bruno Walter ! "

[Barbirollians]

There is of course the story of an untried conductor rehearsing the NYPO in a Mahler symphony. At the outset he addressed the players " Gentleman, we are in the presence of a great composer, and I approach this music with the utmost humility. I hope that we can all work together, and if anyone has a helpful suggestion to contribute, I am all ears."

"Sure Mac! ' came the reply, "Send for Bruno Walter ! "

Love it - I am not sure if this is correct but didn't Bruno Walter have a very good reputation for not being a tyrant with musicians?

The Monitor documentary of barbirolli is interesting - there is a hint of exasperation with the Halle as they rehearse the opening of the Scherzo of Bruckner 7 ( a sequence which when the film was shown again when I was a teenager led to go and buy a Bruckner symphony ) but he conducts the RNCM orchestra in Tchaikovsky 4 with such an encouraging hand that you can see the players growing in confidence and playing their hearts out .

[Rupert P Matley]

The days of tyrannical conductors are over? Well, there is the recent story that a certain specialist conductor of HIP hit an LSO trumpeter with his score, followed by his fist after a post-rehearsal argument.

[Tony Halstead]

The days of tyrannical conductors are over? Well, there is the recent story that a certain specialist conductor of HIP hit an LSO trumpeter with his score, followed by his fist after a post-rehearsal argument.

Yes but I thought we had been there before: see message #1 in this thread, and then paragraph 5 of Peter Phillips' article in 'the Spectator'.

[Rupert P Matley]

Oops. Apologies for rampant idiocy.... Should have spotted that!

[Tony Halstead]

Oops. Apologies for rampant idiocy.... Should have spotted that!

No apology required...!
Who on earth reads that ragbag anyway?

[Ariosto]

But it costs an arm (conductors) and a leg to read the Spectator article, so I've no idea what happened. (Hope the trumpet player kicked him in the balls ...)

[visualnickmos]

Love it - I am not sure if this is correct but didn't Bruno Walter have a very good reputation for not being a tyrant with musicians?

I would think so, as I have a CD of BW rehearsing Mozart's - Prague - I think, and he seems not only very nice, but fun, too. Best way to be, I reckon.

[Tony Halstead]

But it costs an arm (conductors) and a leg to read the Spectator article, so I've no idea what happened. (Hope the trumpet player kicked him in the balls ...)

Well, I certainly don't pay an arm and a leg to subscribe to the Spectator but I was able to read the article.
Here is what Phillips wrote:

I wonder to what extent Auden’s remark may be applied to the story that John Eliot Gardiner recently lost his temper with a brass player in the London Symphony Orchestra. His ‘notorious rudeness to performers and colleagues’ has been referred to in these pages by Stephen Walsh. What do we think of that? Do we love his music-making so much that we forgive him the odd peccadillo? Perhaps we think his music-making must be all the better for it. What is certain is that Gardiner is no Wagner: his achievements are likely to be forgotten soon after his death, as is the case with just about every conductor there ever was. If this is true, do we still indulge him?

This kind of behaviour derives from a whole host of out-of-date impulses: the maestro’s belief that he is right by definition; that women are less strong contributors than men, whose talents should not be taken on an equal footing (I think of the Vienna Philharmonic here); that any form of recording, video or audio, is a higher form of activity than mere concert-giving, deserving of extra respect, preparation and financing (I think of the Tallis Scholars here).

I find I have a visceral reaction to any evidence that a conductor feels he is so above his colleagues that he can lord it over them and abuse them. Any music worth performing has to be a collaborative venture. Rank and file players and singers these days have already spent many hours being lectured to, on the way to becoming qualified — they do not need any more of it from the podium. They need to be encouraged. Recreators of other people’s ideas should remember that they are not unique — there is always another way of looking at a masterpiece — and that anyway in another 20 years or so there will be a completely new wave of performers who will be all the rage, for a while. Even Abbado’s work may not be much remembered in a few years’ time.

[Ariosto]

Well, I certainly don't pay an arm and a leg to subscribe to the Spectator but I was able to read the article.
Here is what Phillips wrote:

Hi Tony - thanks for that but as a penniless retired and very old string player I can't afford to pay the press anymore ... Very interesting stuff. I will probably upset a few on here and possibly you as well, but I'm not a great fan of JEG, even if his roses come up great. Never worked for him (crossing myself quickly) and must admit I knew nothing of his alleged reputation. But I think I agree (as a conductor lover) that it's best we forget them once they have passed on to that higher podium.

By the way I played for Adrian Boult a hell of a lot and I don't recognise that remark about him looking dire in front and benign from behind. He was always calm even when things went wrong (often his fault) and he had a wicked sense of humour. "Letter C gentlemen" and then an immediate down beat before anyone found the place. The fact that he put up with "knees up Mother Brown" for a couple of bars before things settled down and did not have me thrown out of the rehearsal was testament to his nice nature and I really liked him. Woe betide you though if you lit up a fag!! The sarcasm was pretty cutting ... A fine musician of the Furtwangler mould.

He did acknowledge the ladies too, he was a real gentleman.

[visualnickmos]

Hi Tony - thanks for that but as a penniless retired and very old string player I can't afford to pay the press anymore ... Very interesting stuff. I will probably upset a few on here and possibly you as well, but I'm not a great fan of JEG, even if his roses come up great. Never worked for him (crossing myself quickly) and must admit I knew nothing of his alleged reputation. But I think I agree (as a conductor lover) that it's best we forget them once they have passed on to that higher podium.

By the way I played for Adrian Boult a hell of a lot and I don't recognise that remark about him looking dire in front and benign from behind. He was always calm even when things went wrong (often his fault) and he had a wicked sense of humour. "Letter C gentlemen" and then an immediate down beat before anyone found the place. The fact that he put up with "knees up Mother Brown" for a couple of bars before things settled down and did not have me thrown out of the rehearsal was testament to his nice nature and I really liked him. Woe betide you though if you lit up a fag!! The sarcasm was pretty cutting ... A fine musician of the Furtwangler mould.

He did acknowledge the ladies too, he was a real gentleman.

Lovely story. Any more like this? It would be fantastic to hear them, especially as I have no musical background at all - I just love the sound of it all! And I have an unquenchable thirst for learning facts, details, quotes etc relating to the wonderful creative subject.

[Ariosto]

Lovely story. Any more like this? It would be fantastic to hear them, especially as I have no musical background at all - I just love the sound of it all! And I have an unquenchable thirst for learning facts, details, quotes etc relating to the wonderful creative subject.

Thanks! I would love to but I'm trying hard to forget it all and concentrate on the countryside, walking the dog, nature, good food and beer/wine. I also find that people generally on the forum don't like me talking about my disreputable past, as it's really quite unsavoury. I'm such a cantankerous old geezer who has said a few naughty things about conductors and criticised critics, as well as making sweeping statements about both young and old(er) musicians. Anyway, FF would not like it as it creates unrest and much gnashing of teeth (I haven't any left so I can't gnash) - and intellectuals from "up North" could get their knickers in a twist if I mention recording quality vis a vi Hi and Low Fi equipment.

better stop I think! ANOTHER 1,000 hale maries ...

[visualnickmos]

.....but I'm trying hard to forget it all and concentrate on the countryside, walking the dog, nature, good food and beer/wine.

Sounds idyllic - stick with it

I also find that people generally on the forum don't like me talking about my disreputable past, as it's really quite unsavoury. I'm such a cantankerous old geezer who has said a few naughty things about conductors and criticised critics, as well as making sweeping statements about both young and old(er) musicians.

Bring it on! You worked in profession, and surely have every right to say what you feel. Critics do that all the time. Give the blighters a taste of their own medicine!

Sometimes these boards are all the better for the occasional kick up the crescendo! It promotes a bit of banter.....

I always enjoy your wry comments and wit, I have to say, not to mention your great little(!) anecdotes.

(surely English must be the only European language where you can get away with using 'little' preceded by the adjective 'great' and for it still to make perfect sense.....)

[Ferretfancy]

Love it - I am not sure if this is correct but didn't Bruno Walter have a very good reputation for not being a tyrant with musicians?

The Monitor documentary of barbirolli is interesting - there is a hint of exasperation with the Halle as they rehearse the opening of the Scherzo of Bruckner 7 ( a sequence which when the film was shown again when I was a teenager led to go and buy a Bruckner symphony ) but he conducts the RNCM orchestra in Tchaikovsky 4 with such an encouraging hand that you can see the players growing in confidence and playing their hearts out .

I'm no fan of Norman Lebrecht, but in his book The Conductor Myth, Barbirolli is just about the only conductor that he is nice about. In fact he mentions retired Halle players shedding a tear when remembering him. After all, not many conductors used to take members of the orchestra home for an Italian supper after the concert!

Seeing him conduct from the close vantage point of the RAH Arena front row, you could see the total rapport which he had with the band.