Musicians Face Political Cacaphony NY Times 4/5/14

[Oliver]

Dudamel must have known the risks when he took up that post in L.A.
After all, the US has been subverting democracy in South America for decades, seeking to replace it with rule by elite, supported by death-squads. The CIA- financed coup which tried to depose Chavez, was only a few years ago. And the money has been pouring in to their friends in the oil and media industries from right-wing groups in the US ever since. What a damn nuisance the electorate is. All those poor people with a vote.

[richardfinegold]

I'm sorry to labour this point, but you still haven't explained who the "human rights community" is! I'm sure everyone understands that it's a political term, with baggage etc., but you used it in the context of talking about Gustavo Dudamel so you must attach a meaning to it yourself...

Post #6
The term as I've seen it applies encompasses Right and Left sides of the Political spectrum. Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, Joschka Fischer, political commentators such as Jay Nordlinger, Cuban and Chinese dissidents, the Russian band Pussy Riot...
The point I was making was that some people may fault Dudamel for not criticizing his own Government for policies that may be judged as repressive. I personally would not do so.

[richardfinegold]

Dudamel must have known the risks when he took up that post in L.A.
After all, the US has been subverting democracy in South America for decades, seeking to replace it with rule by elite, supported by death-squads. The CIA- financed coup which tried to depose Chavez, was only a few years ago. And the money has been pouring in to their friends in the oil and media industries from right-wing groups in the US ever since. What a damn nuisance the electorate is. All those poor people with a vote.

Truly.

[Richard Barrett]

Dudamel must have known the risks when he took up that post in L.A.
After all, the US has been subverting democracy in South America for decades, seeking to replace it with rule by elite, supported by death-squads. The CIA- financed coup which tried to depose Chavez, was only a few years ago. And the money has been pouring in to their friends in the oil and media industries from right-wing groups in the US ever since. What a damn nuisance the electorate is. All those poor people with a vote.

There you go. All this "I'm just a simple musician" kind of nonsense ought to have gone out with Strauss and Furtwängler.

[ahinton]

There you go. All this "I'm just a simple musician" kind of nonsense ought to have gone out with Strauss and Furtwängler.

OK, but isn't Dudamel's particular position also illustrative of the fact that two wrongs don't make a right? The fact that El Sistema - a phenomenon of which he is himself a product - has developed into the social and musical success that it has does immense credit to the successive Venezuelan governments that encouraged it to develop and flourish and it is already being regarded as a fine example to be followed elsewhere, yet the manner in which those governments have treated certain Venezuelan citizens during the same period does the very opposite.

[Richard Barrett]

the manner in which those governments have treated certain Venezuelan citizens during the same period does the very opposite.

I see you've bought the propaganda - try this instead: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/...-in-venezuela/

[ahinton]

I see you've bought the propaganda - try this instead: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/...-in-venezuela/

No, I've not bought anything about it - or even gotten it for free - but am indebted to you for drawing attention to this article and openly admit that it would have been more appropriate for me to have written "the manner in which those governments are widely accused of having treated certain Venezuelan citizens during the same period does the very opposite".

Counterpunch's political leanings are not exactly disguised, but the tributes paid to Chávez in that article for his having helped to improve the lot of many of the poorer Venezuelan citizens during his presidency of that country would, I think, be very difficult for anyone with an enquiring and balanced mind to challenge, but the suggestion that these factors and the development of El Sistema in that country as part of the policy to try to improve its citizens' life chances do not tell the whole story, as I'm sure you would appreciate.

Ms Montero's statements are made from the comparative safety provided by the geographical distance that she has evidently felt it necessary to place between herself and her country and need to be read as such, though to say so is not necessarily to undermine them in toto.

[vinteuil]

I see you've bought the propaganda -

... whereas Richard Barrett is immune to the Chavez propaganda.

[Richard Barrett]

... whereas Richard Barrett is immune to the Chavez propaganda.

The author of the article is in fact an American academic who has spent time in Venezuela. One could look around and check the facts. There are many examples of how what is actually going on in that country is misrepresented by most anglophone media. While noting that there are serious social problems in the country, one would nevertheless have to admit facts such as that it's a more equal society than the USA (as measured by the Gini coefficient of income equality), and there are all kinds of impressive figures about large improvements in education, health care coverage, GDP per head and so on over the past fifteen years. These are all verifiable statistics, not propaganda.

The Carter Center in its report on the 2013 elections (see the pdf under https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr...la-070313.html) states that four-fifths of election coverage by private media in Venezuela was dedicated to opposition candidate Henrique Capriles; bear in mind that 70% of Venezuelan media is privately-owned and only 5% state-owned, and that the 40% of Venezuelans with cable TV also have access to CNN, Fox and so on. Yet representation in western media tends to portray a country whose repressive dictatorial régime wields iron control over information.

Former US president Carter has also described the Venezuelan election system as "the best in the world" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBwQ40TtCFA), so the fact that the political movement represented by Chávez and Maduro has won 17 out of 18 elections since 1998 tends to contradict the notion that it's opposed by a broad-based protest movement.

[Sir Velo]

Former US president Carter has also described the Venezuelan election system as "the best in the world"

Silly me! And there was I thinking you were going to cite someone with a reputation within the international community.

[Sir Velo]

I see you've bought the propaganda - try this instead: http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/...-in-venezuela/

What exactly are the credentials of Peter Boehmer which establish his reliability as an authoritative voice?

Can we take a commentator seriously who praises a 50% increase in a nation's average calorific intake to 3,000 calories per day?

[Richard Barrett]

Sir Velo, I'm not going to waste any more time looking up and citing material you've obviously decided in advance not to find convincing. Maybe you have some information of your own you'd like to share.

[ahinton]

The author of the article is in fact an American academic who has spent time in Venezuela. One could look around and check the facts. There are many examples of how what is actually going on in that country is misrepresented by most anglophone media. While noting that there are serious social problems in the country, one would nevertheless have to admit facts such as that it's a more equal society than the USA (as measured by the Gini coefficient of income equality), and there are all kinds of impressive figures about large improvements in education, health care coverage, GDP per head and so on over the past fifteen years. These are all verifiable statistics, not propaganda.

The Carter Center in its report on the 2013 elections (see the pdf under https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr...la-070313.html) states that four-fifths of election coverage by private media in Venezuela was dedicated to opposition candidate Henrique Capriles; bear in mind that 70% of Venezuelan media is privately-owned and only 5% state-owned, and that the 40% of Venezuelans with cable TV also have access to CNN, Fox and so on. Yet representation in western media tends to portray a country whose repressive dictatorial régime wields iron control over information.

Former US president Carter has also described the Venezuelan election system as "the best in the world" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBwQ40TtCFA), so the fact that the political movement represented by Chávez and Maduro has won 17 out of 18 elections since 1998 tends to contradict the notion that it's opposed by a broad-based protest movement.

OK, but are we to assume that all (apart from the "serious social problems" that you mention above) is anything but rotten in the state of Venezuela and that Gabriela Montero and others are talking out the their backsides from a woefully uninformed position to try to draw attention to themselves or for some other reason?

[Richard Barrett]

Anyway, returning to richardfinegold's original post, I don't generally think that furtherance of careers should be a factor for artists (or indeed anyone with any kind of public presence) criticising governments, or cultural institutions, or anything else. Of course, under brutal dictatorships like those of Hitler or Stalin, there is the overriding question of actual personal danger, but being realistic we aren't presently looking at situations like that.

I think it's shameful that Dudamel has decided to try and sidestep the matter altogether - whether he's keeping quiet so as not to offend his US hosts by standing up for the Venezuelan government, or so as not to bite the hand that fed him by criticising it, makes no difference really. At least Gabriela Montero says what she thinks, although it seems to me she represents the wealthy minority of Venezuelans who've been objecting to the redistribution of wealth in Venezuela from the start. Perhaps it's also relevant that she is half American.

While Gergiev appears to be an enthusiastic supporter of Putin and his policies, he has also mumbled now and again that he supports gay equality, though not in a very convincing way. Personally I think artists do better to say what they think; the kind of equivocation we see from Dudamel and Gergiev doesn't say much for their personal integrity.

[Gabriel Jackson]

That would be interesting indeed, Barbs. Placing him on such a list would undoubtedly backfire and create sympathy for Gergiev and indirectly for Putin.
Considering the point that a lot of current protest to Putin is because of the Russian Government's perceived intolerance of Gay Rights, I am perhaps a bit surprised that Putin doesn't try somehow to capitalize on Gergiev's advocacy of Tchaikovsky. Or does the Government simply refuse to acknowledge that the Greatest Russian Composer was homosexual?

When it comes to objections to Putin there is, of course, the small matter of Russia's invasion and annexation of part of another sovereign country...