Roger Wright moves to Aldeburgh Music

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Can't say I noticed, Flossie. <butterwouldn'tmeltemoticon>


Good heavens! I didn't know EA hired out his house & grounds to film companies!

The nearest I get is alpine rockery plants straying on to the lawn. ( I've only been to the Alps once.)

[Flosshilde]

( I've only been to the Alps once.)

Physically, perhaps, but in spirit ...

[jean]

Problematic concept "upmarket", but in this context I think if Lord Hall's announcement means more Shakespeare, opera, ballet etc and fewer game shows, cookery programmes and reality TV, then this might be considered to be re-positioning upmarket as perceived by many licence-fee payers...

So it's not a word you'd use yourself, but one you think many licence-fee payers might find appropriate.

How many did you ask?

It's a serious point.

[Flosshilde]

How memory fades... No she was fully clothed

http:// https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO7zGCsemiY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Most adverts at that time semed to feature naked or nearly naked women - not men, though

[french frank]

So it's not a word you'd use yourself, but one you think many licence-fee payers might find appropriate.

How many did you ask?

It's a serious point.

As far as I'm concerned, the problem is not in the way it's used but in the way others interpret it. A Patek Philippe watch is upmarket because most people can't afford it; an H Samuel Everite is (was) cheap and therefore downmarket because everyone could afford it. If an H Samuel watch is perfectly adequate for your purposes (telling the time), it is just as good as a Patek Philippe. If people prefer a Patek Philippe for aesthetic reasons, it will give them more pleasure, even if it just tells the time.

It doesn't mean that everyone is saying, "My watch is better than your watch, so I'm a better person than you, so there." Any more than if some billionaire can afford to buy a Van Gogh (which they would be welcome to, as far as I'm concerned).

And as for the Media Show tweeter who commented that the BBC was going to be broadcasting more of what 99% of people (sc. 'ME') don't want - anyone would think the rest of the entertainment was going to be cancelled to make way for h'opera and ballAy. No, it's just that tastes which have hardly been catered for for some while are now going to be served better.

[jean]

As far as I'm concerned, the problem is not in the way it's used but in the way others interpret it...

Two sides of the same coin, surely?

But we are wasting our time discussing anyone's interpretation of the word if no-one's used it in the first place - which as it turns out they haven't, except as in an attempt to formulate someone else's thoughts for them.

[Maclintick]

So it's not a word you'd use yourself, but one you think many licence-fee payers might find appropriate.

How many did you ask?

It's a serious point.

I think you have a point, & maybe "upmarket", unless it's used in the purely commercial or pecuniary sense described by FF in his Patek Philippe analogy, is a description too redolent of futile culture wars in which the proponents of "high" culture disdain the "popular", who then retaliate with charges of snobbery & elitism.

As a point of principle, I feel that everyone who pays the Beeb's licence-fee should find something they value on its output. Whether that should include stuff like "Snog, Marry, Avoid" & "Pointless Celebrities", similar fare to many other shows on C4 & C5, is debatable, & a question Lord Hall has started to address.

In answer to your direct question, no, I obviously haven't conducted my own research into how licence-fee payers regard the Hall-ite push for the Arts, but I don't think he'd be considering it if his legions of audience-sniffers & market-share analysts had found little public support for such a move, & judging from reaction & reports in the media I think it's fair to describe his plans as "culturally ambitious" -- will that do instead of "upmarket" ? ( I bought my watch in a sale in H.Samuel if that's relevant )

[teamsaint]

Talking of music, (kind of), the Mirror reports that the BBC spent £36M "The Voice". Other sources suggest it was £22m for the rights, though there may be other costs I guess, such as fees for presenters.

This sort of expenditure doesn't really seem to get the same scrutiny as , say, the R3 budget.

I wonder if Bob Shennan will have things to say about this?

[amateur51]

In answer to your direct question, no, I obviously haven't conducted my own research into how licence-fee payers regard the Hall-ite push for the Arts, but I don't think he'd be considering it if his legions of audience-sniffers & market-share analysts had found little public support for such a move, & judging from reaction & reports in the media I think it's fair to describe his plans as "culturally ambitious" -- will that do instead of "upmarket" ? ( I bought my watch in a sale in H.Samuel if that's relevant )

Your creative use of the term "audience-sniffers" conjured up an image of a warm busy day at Crufts, I'm afraid - thank you

I don't own a watch - but I know someone who does

[french frank]

... a description too redolent of futile culture wars in which the proponents of "high" culture disdain the "popular", who then retaliate with charges of snobbery & elitism.

Extolling the virtues solely of what some like to call the 'high arts' doesn't necessarily mean that one has any opinion at all about the "popular" (hence the watch analogy). To each his own. When it comes to the BBC, the amount of money spent on the 'high arts' is infinitesimal - and will continue to be, even with all the new initiatives.

When voices are raised in protest against the 'elitist arts' it's interesting to guess what personal agendas are at work. There are some people (who offer alternatives) who seem to be panicked by the idea that the 'elist, exclusive, niche' arts are for everyone. They used to be, especially on the BBC: the popularity of Civilisation didn't indicate a 'niche' market (still selling if you can find a copy). And what about Bronowski's The Ascent of Man?

Mr Claypole expressed his certainty that there was a 'huge appetite and passion' for the arts - so, over to the public to vote with their remotes. Putting an extra £2.75m into the arts on television won't mean an end to Strictly Come Dancing or The Voice.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Putting an extra £2.75m into the arts on television won't mean an end to Strictly Come Dancing or The Voice.

[Honoured Guest]

And what about Bronowski's The Ascent of Man?

Last Tuesday evening, hours after Tony Hall's speech, the first featured fruits of this Arts push were a visual arts item on The One Show featuring Jacob Bronowski's daughter and Phil Tufnell, and a second visual arts item featuring Phil Tufnell and two muppets.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Last Tuesday evening, hours after Tony Hall's speech, the first featured fruits of this Arts push were a visual arts item on The One Show featuring Jacob Bronowski's daughter and Phil Tufnell, and a second visual arts item featuring Phil Tufnell and two muppets.

And what conclusion did you come to?

[Honoured Guest]

Ena, the Lisa Jardine piece was fine. The sofa chat about Miss Piggy's book of visual art was a joke. Hard to tell whether it would have featured on a different day, other than on One Show Arts Day 1. Presenter Matt Baker quipped that he wasn't sure it was quite what Tony Hall had in mind with his Arts speech.

Now we've all had time to mull over Tuesday's Arts speech, Steve Hewlett has posted a calmly reflective blog summarising what we know about the plans, with gentle speculation of their fate: http://www.theguardian.com/media/med...liticans-happy

Meanwhile, the old tv arts programmes must give way for the new. Tonight BBC4 broadcasts the final editions of both The Review Show and What Do Artists Do All Day?

[morebritishmusicplease]

I think Roger Wright was basically well-meaning, and he did do some good things (for example, we would never have heard Foulds' 'World Requiem' or The Gothic Symphony again in our time if not for him. On the other hand, for me the most terrible and unforgivable thing he did was to open up Radio 3 to an ocean of never-ending, empty, pointless, incredibly tiresome 'CHAT', which has actively driven me away from an institution which was a huge influence on my life! Sadly I doubt that whoever takes over from him will be much better, as it seems to me that the whole music and arts world in the UK is now completely dominated by the 'chat' brigade and their mentality, and any attempt to return to R3 just doing what is used to do very well and to the highest standards would be unacceptable as being too 'elitist'.

The New Lyricist
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