Roger Wright moves to Aldeburgh Music

[french frank]

Reading the article it seems that he did get the card someone from the Massagebored sent

There was no Massagebored, Messageboard or forum in 1998. Not certain whether that little anecdote is one he tells often or whether it's on file and it's the journo that keeps trotting it out

Having met him on a number of occasions, I do feel more sympathetic than some - even though I never pulled punches on his strategy and its effects. I think it would have been much better for Radio 3 and classical music on the BBC (same thing?) if he had not had quite such a robust constitution and had relinquished Radio 3 sooner but it must have become grindingly difficult in later years, especially when he saw the Trust accept the high-ups advice that Radio 1 should have a larger budget than Radio 3, notwithstanding the cost of the BBC Proms and BBC Performing Groups which cost a disproportionate amount of Radio 3's budget, compared with the amount of broadcast hours they provided. Given the BBC 'brand', the BBC should have chipped in more of its £3.5bn to fund them.

[Flosshilde]

the special protected status that classical music has had within Radio 3 for historical reasons, and it means a more level playing field where all music is able to bid for showcase on Radio 3, on its merits.

Not just for 'historical' reasons, surely?

I did suggest, on the pop-up Southbank thread, I think, that perhaps the Beeb is planning on having one all-encompasing music station. The rumoured post of head (or director) of music might facilitate that?

[Richard Barrett]

on its merits.

And who decides what "merits" mean in this context? Your idea solves nothing.

[french frank]

I see this as a Good Thing because it removes the special protected status that classical music has had within Radio 3 for historical reasons, and it means a more level playing field where all music is able to bid for showcase on Radio 3, on its merits.

Oh, good! And will the special protected status of popular music on every other station be removed as a quid pro quo? They do have rather a number of them: Radio 1, Radio 1Xtra, Radio 2, Radio 6 Music, the Asian Network, such music as is on local radio.

Of course, one may say that these are different genres of popular music, unlike classical music which, orchestral, chamber, opera, ballet, choral, contemporary acoustic and electronic, from across a millennium, are all the same genre, really.

Just because you're less keen on classical and prefer the world, jazz, 'mixed genre' of LJ, it doesn't mean that within the BBC's music provision generally having pushed this 'one' genre into a single station, other genres should gradually encroach on that.

What do you suggest? Annexation by force?

(PS Jazz and world could, in my view, be better integrated into the schedule, though, again in my view, the world music would need to widen its scope considerably and not just complement the other forms of contemporary music)

[amateur51]

And who decides what "merits" mean in this context? Your idea solves nothing.

Exactly what's bothering me

[Honoured Guest]

Off topic, but ... I've never quite understood your comment, which you often make, about the relatively high cost per broadcast hour of the BBC Proms and BBC Performing Groups. Of course it's factually correct, but surely it's just a fact of life, similar to Drama on television costing far more per hour than almost everything else. The Proms and the Performing Groups are both key to Radio 3 and I don't quite see what your alternative might be. Through their live events, they also serve as ambassadors for BBC Music and Radio 3. If you're advocating that Radio 3 should instead buy in more live events and recordings from external sources, surely the Controller and producers would lose control of the repertoire? Obviously, we're mainly talking about Afternoon on 3 and Radio 3 Live in Concert here. The New Generation Artists programme has presumably also helped to plan the broadcast music repertoire to some extent, as well as supporting emerging artists.

[french frank]

The Proms and the Performing Groups are both key to Radio 3

Quite the contrary: Radio 3 is key to the Proms and the Performing Groups. Neither would have any reason to exist if Radio 3 didn't broadcast the concerts: but there are plenty of other recitals, concerts and CDs that Radio 3 could call on to fill its schedules.

[Flosshilde]

If you're advocating that Radio 3 should instead buy in more live events and recordings from external sources, surely the Controller and producers would lose control of the repertoire? Obviously, we're mainly talking about Afternoon on 3 and Radio 3 Live in Concert here.

In what sense are you "mainly talking about Afternoon on 3 and Radio 3 Live in Concert"? These 'slots' already have quite a large proportion of non-BBC groups.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Is this just a rumour? Or has it been officially announced by the BBC? This is crucial! It would seem to change the environment in which the new Controller, Radio 3 would operate. It would fully integrate Radio 3 into BBC Music across all platforms and all music genres. I see this as a Good Thing because it removes the special protected status that classical music has had within Radio 3 for historical reasons, and it means a more level playing field where all music is able to bid for showcase on Radio 3, on its merits.

I'm a Host, and have, therefore to be on my best behaviour, accepting that there are different points of view, and that people should be able to express them within the House Rules. Sometimes I will disagree with posters' comments, but that is the point of discussing things. But a comment such this final sentence brings out the worst in me and I would like to say something that would be unacceptable.

However, if I can't say it, I can still think it.

[mercia]

off-topic (sorry) - apparently some sort of Arts announcement coming tomorrow

..... which is today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-26728704

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/bbc-arts-release.html

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

If you're advocating that Radio 3 should instead buy in more live events and recordings from external sources, surely the Controller and producers would lose control of the repertoire?

A feeble argument in my opinion. The control of the repertoire is one of the problems.

This is clutching at straws.

[french frank]

If you're advocating that Radio 3 should instead buy in more live events and recordings from external sources, surely the Controller and producers would lose control of the repertoire? Obviously, we're mainly talking about Afternoon on 3 and Radio 3 Live in Concert here.

You only have to look at the EBU repertoire provided for Through the Night (programmes put together by the BBC) to see that there are other sources that are much cheaper and the BBC can take its pick.

In any case, back to the original point, the broadcast hours of the Performing Groups (and the Proms) are disproportionate to the amount they cost - you've read the BBC Trust's review, so you know they stated the percentages. The schedules are already predominantly filled with 'bought in' concerts. Repeating the same BBC concerts over and over again doesn't come free.

[Honoured Guest]

Oh, good! And will the special protected status of popular music on every other station be removed as a quid pro quo? They do have rather a number of them: Radio 1, Radio 1Xtra, Radio 2, Radio 6 Music, the Asian Network, such music as is on local radio.

As you know, much of those stations' output isn't music, and in many programmes, particularly in the daytime, the music is just one element in the mix, not the primary focus.

Think of BBC4's regular music programming every Friday night. The controller commissions and acquires all sorts of programming, all of a specialist nature, but appealing to different audiences. I assume that, as a broad generalisation, the individual programme producers are the specialists who judge the "merits" of potential programmes and the Controller decides the balance of music genres and of performance and documentary, of contemporary and archive, etc. The Head of Music presumably sits in the middle, appraising the producers' proposals, and then selecting those best to be pitched to the channel Controller.

Now, so much of Radio 3 is ringfenced for classical music. A Head of Music might well say, Hang on a minute, I've got all these other proposals for music programming which would sit very nicely in such and such a slot on a radio station for serious listening. It's not a threat to classical music because the best would be broadcast on its merits, and could be more prominent in the schedule as an individual programme of excellence, not just part of the current never-ending conveyor belt.

Just a thought ...

[french frank]

Just a thought:

you've read the BBC Trust's review, so you know they stated the percentages.

Trust review, p. 47:

93 In 2009-10 Radio 3 spent £7.9million of its service licence budget on the BBC performing groups. This was allocated across the orchestras and choruses and is linked roughly, although not entirely, to the levels of output broadcast on the network. In total however, the performing groups account for around 20 per cent of the Radio 3 service budget but only 7 per cent of all broadcast hours.

Add to that £4m-£5m for the Proms, that's roughly £12.5m which is almost exactly one third of its content spend last year (£38.3m). That would be just short of 3,000 broadcast hours during the year. Do the sums.

[Honoured Guest]

I accept the sums but I don't understand why you see this as a problem.