Longevity of Conductors

[Petrushka]

Does anyone else on here, when home alone, conduct?
I use a kniiting needle.
Maybe it's doing me some good.

Give yourself a real workout for free and go for the Tchaikovsky 4 finale. Saves a fortune in gym fees

[richardfinegold]

Give yourself a real workout for free and go for the Tchaikovsky 4 finale. Saves a fortune in gym fees

I got to know the Tchaik 4 from the Bernstein/NYPhil recording in the 1970s. I remember watching him conduct it on TV soon after the release. At the start of IV he jumped high in the air and fell backwards off the podium and had to scramble back on while the Orchestra continued on.

[Petrushka]

An interesting reply, richardfinegold, and good to hear from someone in the medical field. It cannot be just some form of coincidence that conductors live to advanced ages with their faculties reasonably intact and, mostly, physically capable. It is indeed notable that conductors change their technique as they get older (Bernard Haitink is a modern example, very different from the man I first saw over 35 years ago) but surely from a medical point of view they have had the benefit of years of animated physical activity by the time they reach the stage of changing their stick technique. What keeps them going as they age must, in my opinion, be the mental sharpness they need to do the job. I do also wonder if conductors suffer hearing problems as most of us do as we age. I know Furtwangler found deafness a problem and I think Klemperer did as well.

Zubin Mehta once told the story of finding Karl Böhm weeping at a performance of Tristan that Mehta was conducting because he could no longer conduct the piece. The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak!

As Ferney rightly points out, heart attacks seem to be an occupational hazard and it's interesting to note that as the general population lives longer (allegedly) conductors in recent years haven't necessarily got older still.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I got to know the Tchaik 4 from the Bernstein/NYPhil recording in the 1970s. I remember watching him conduct it on TV soon after the release. At the start of IV he jumped high in the air and fell backwards off the podium and had to scramble back on while the Orchestra continued on.

Something similar happened to me in 2001(?). I was conducting the combined ensembles of an area youth music centre with hundreds of young players, who were playing my own New Fantasia on British Sea Songs. The rostrum had been set up by the parents' committee as part of the stage extension at Scarborough Spa Grand Hall. They thought it was secure; so did I. When I leant forward to bring in one particular group I had to arrest my subsequent fall by grabbing a flimsy music stand. Fortunately, only the Jazz Orchestra noticed and tried very hard not to laugh. Those actually playing obviously weren't watching as they carried on without a hitch.
The really embarassing thing was that it appeared on the video, though at a reasonable distance as it was used for the credits.

[richardfinegold]

An interesting reply, richardfinegold, and good to hear from someone in the medical field. It cannot be just some form of coincidence that conductors live to advanced ages with their faculties reasonably intact and, mostly, physically capable. It is indeed notable that conductors change their technique as they get older (Bernard Haitink is a modern example, very different from the man I first saw over 35 years ago) but surely from a medical point of view they have had the benefit of years of animated physical activity by the time they reach the stage of changing their stick technique. What keeps them going as they age must, in my opinion, be the mental sharpness they need to do the job. I do also wonder if conductors suffer hearing problems as most of us do as we age. I know Furtwangler found deafness a problem and I think Klemperer did as well.

Zubin Mehta once told the story of finding Karl Böhm weeping at a performance of Tristan that Mehta was conducting because he could no longer conduct the piece. The spirit was willing but the flesh was weak!

As Ferney rightly points out, heart attacks seem to be an occupational hazard and it's interesting to note that as the general population lives longer (allegedly) conductors in recent years haven't necessarily got older still.

Another Conductor that lost most of his hearing was Eugene Ormandy. He was asking the Philadelphia Orchestra late in his tenure to play louder to compensate and this was a factor in the Orchestra deciding it was time to make a change.
I am sure that the Mental acuity required to master scores helps prevent Dementia. And as I stated before there are obvious Cardiovascular benefits to the physical demands of the job that an otherwise sedentary elderly person may not be benefitting from.
Still, I think that it is easier for a Conductor to carry on with a Physical Impairment that it would be for a Singer or an Instrumentalist. In fact, many Instrumentalists have turned to Conducting when they began to have problems that interfered with their ability to play their instruments.

[Alison]

I use a pencil and the last work I conducted was Glazunov's Fourth Symphony.

[richardfinegold]

I use a pencil and the last work I conducted was Glazunov's Fourth Symphony.

That pencil could be a two edged word. If you don't like what you are hearing, you may want to use the eraser end.

[EdgeleyRob]

I use a pencil and the last work I conducted was Glazunov's Fourth Symphony.

Good choice chuck.
I mean the music,not the choice of baton,although a pencil makes more sense than a knitting needle,safer.

[Petrushka]

I think it was Sir Malcolm Sargent who challenged a boxer to see who could last out the test of physical stamina and Sir Malcolm won easily. Perhaps someone who knows more can flesh out the details of this half-remembered story.

Alison, Rob and Beefie, it's no doubt that the Russians know how to compose music to test the stamina of a conductor. Once you've worn yourself out with the Tchaik 4 finale try the second movement of the Shostakovich 10th. It might only be 4 minutes long but it will really get the blood pumping round...and that's just listening to it from the comfort of your armchair.

[EdgeleyRob]

Cheers Pet.

Great advice on keeping fit while you listen to music,and much more fun than listening via an i pod at the gym.

[cloughie]

I think it was Sir Malcolm Sargent who challenged a boxer to see who could last out the test of physical stamina and Sir Malcolm won easily. Perhaps someone who knows more can flesh out the details of this half-remembered story.

Alison, Rob and Beefie, it's no doubt that the Russians know how to compose music to test the stamina of a conductor. Once you've worn yourself out with the Tchaik 4 finale try the second movement of the Shostakovich 10th. It might only be 4 minutes long but it will really get the blood pumping round...and that's just listening to it from the comfort of your armchair.

Or try Glinka's Russlan & Ludmilla Ov (Solti or Gergiev), Prokofiev 5 (2nd movt)(Jansons), Tchaik 6 (Movt 3) (Fricsay).

[cloughie]

All that arm waving and musical analysis must keep the cardio-vascular system and brain in good shape. Have any conductors succumbed to dementia or Alzheimers for instance?

No names but I would guess that is the case with some conductors who we know are still alive but no longer on the podium. There are suicides - Edward Downes was the famous public on in recent years but also Georg Tintner look his own life at 82. He was suffering from cancer but I thought at the time he had said he could not remember scores and this contributed to his decision but I many have remembered incorrectly.

[richardfinegold]

No names but I would guess that is the case with some conductors who we know are still alive but no longer on the podium. There are suicides - Edward Downes was the famous public on in recent years but also Georg Tintner look his own life at 82. He was suffering from cancer but I thought at the time he had said he could not remember scores and this contributed to his decision but I many have remembered incorrectly.

That was the case with Tintner. I had recently bought a Brahms 3rd from the Naxos label with a NOva Scotia Orchestra and the bio note is from one of his children, who discusses the incident in depth.

[notnerb]

Slightly (or very) OT, am I imagining the proportion of conductors suffering from short man syndrome? (Which may be related to their oengevity - are there any studies on this?) HvK, Bernstein leap to mind.

[Pabmusic]

Slightly (or very) OT, am I imagining the proportion of conductors suffering from short man syndrome? (Which may be related to their oengevity - are there any studies on this?) HvK, Bernstein leap to mind.

Perhaps a little far-fetched, since there have been several notably tall conductors - Furtwängler, Strauss, Boult and Norman del Mar come to mind. But then, so do Ashkenazy and Previn...

Boult, incidentally, who retired in 1979 at the age of 90, was unable to fight in WW1 (good thing!) because he was declared unfit, being considered sickly, with chronic chest problems.