Handel operas - language

[Dave2002]

Handel was a German who spent a significant part of his life in England. He wrote many operas, most of them in Italian. I wonder why, particularly for the later ones, many of which were first performed at the King's Theatre, London. Would the audience have understood the texts? Was there a subset of English society which did understand Italian for whom the operas were intended?

Perhaps contemporary audiences were in fact just as mystified by many operas as fairly recent audiences were before the introduction of surtitles.

In his early life Handel wrote for performances in Germany. The same considerations perhaps applied there too.

[Gordon]

Dunno Dave, but the principal singers Handel used were often Italian and so it was their natural language. Most N German opera composers studied Italian and French style and there is evidence that Telemann in Hamburg [a cosmopolitan city of burghers] wrote operas in which all of German, French and Italian were all mixed up in the same piece!! Given some of the plots hearing them in English probably wouldn't make any difference!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In the early Eighteenth Century, Opera in England (and Germany) was "supposed" to be in Italian (well - we weren't going to have it in French, were we) - it was a sign of one's culture, education and a hang-on from the "Grand Tour" popular amongst the idle rich at the time. Handel finished his studies in Italy and had a complete command of the conventions of Italian Opera and Oratorio. The plots are ... errr ... "operatic", but based upon the Greek & Roman myths that would have been more familiar to the audiences of the time than they are to the majority of those of today.

English bloody-mindedness soon stepped in, and with The Beggar's Opera and other "ballad" and vernacular operas, the fashion for Italian opera waned. Acis & Galatea gives us an idea of what we might have missed, but Handel's operas are superb works - I believe him to be the most overlooked of the great Opera composers.

[Roehre]

.... Handel's operas are superb works - I believe him to be the most overlooked of the great Opera composers.

Musically I agree full 100%. Operatically and in terms of stageability they deserve to be buried 6 feet under IMVHO (I'll get me coat)

[Gordon]

.....but Handel's operas are superb works - I believe him to be the most overlooked of the great Opera composers.

http://benslowmusic.org/?PageID=88

[Dave2002]

Musically I agree full 100%. Operatically and in terms of stageability they deserve to be buried 6 feet under IMVHO (I'll get me coat)

Rodelinda at the ENO last night was a challenge plotwise. Some of the music was lovely, but that doesn't mean I'd prefer it to Mozart, Beethoven, Strauss. Oddly I found myself saying in discussion that Berg's Wozzeck is amazing - I'm not sure I'd want to listen to the music in isolation, but I found the ROH production a few years ago an incredible example of integrating music and drama.

[Despina dello Stagno]

In his early life Handel wrote for performances in Germany. The same considerations perhaps applied there too.

I may be wrong, but I don't think that on the continent the same commercial considerations applied. Clearly popular public opera in Italy and France posed no problems, being in the native tongue (or does one have to qualify that with the multiplicity of dialects obtaining in Italy?). Was German opera at this period (and I can really only name Keise in the early years) performed to the public, or to well-informed cognoscenti; private patrons?

Would the audience have understood the texts?....Perhaps contemporary audiences were in fact just as mystified by many operas as fairly recent audiences were before the introduction of surtitles.

I am unconvinced that text and plot were necessary adjuncts to the occasion. It was customary to drop in and out of performances as one pleased (a stag night clubbing would not be a preposterous analogy). It may have been the custom to dance to the tunes (as it was to dance in those incidental suites such as those by Purcells H. and D. interpolated into spoken theatre}. Certainly, in between the businesses of orange buying, threats of random violence/claques, and the attempted penetration of the actresses' plackets, little notice would have been paid to the words at all. (Think Pepys' accounts of the theatre)

And if the words were even heard, would they have been understood? The audience would probably have included a small subset of those who knew Italian from the "Grand Tour", but there were as many who could understand but found the whole entertainment ludicrous. Intellectual pretension is no sustainable basis for a public entertainment, which is why, after a few wildly successful years, Handel was reduced to soliciting for custom within the previously aloof Jewish and out-of-theatrical-season markets (oratorios).

It is still possible achieve considerable popularity in a language apparently arcane to the recipient audience. In the 50s/60s skiffle and blues were overwhelmingly popular in the UK. One could understand empathy with Delta bluesmen (a universal condition, if not entirely transferable to the Severn Delta), but what was the relevance of e.g. brakemen on the Rock Island Line? That particular foreign culture was ultimately "english'd" (term of Elizabethan origin) and made relevant here: sheer misery, Black Country, the iniquity of estate life, etc. all encapsulated in 12 years of Slade.

[Flosshilde]

I think that the a booklet containing the libretto would have been available - rather like the programme for a modern concert performance. Remember that at the time the auditorium would not have been dark as it is now (It being difficult to extinguish & then re-light the hundreds of candles).

Britain has never had an indigenous operatic tradition - 17th century masques & court entertainments didn't develop into opera as similar forms did in Italy - perhaps it was too 'irrational' for English taste? The vogue for Italian opera was relatively short-lived; Handel turned to oratorios because the operas became less popular & therefore economically not viable. The ballad operas - eg 'The Beggar's Opera' - were more like Gilbert & Sullivan & modern musicals.

[doversoul1]

From Handel by Christopher Hogwood

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Handel-Christopher-Hogwood/dp/0500286817/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1394823841&sr=1-1

…a mythological story-line, and it is no surprise that Handel’s audience equipped itself with a bilingual libretto, often containing a commentary and summary which could be followed during the performance.
[…]
It was generally agreed that Italian singers were better trained and more talented than local products… (from the Chapter ‘London: the Heyday of Opera’)

Hogwood explains that Italian opera (opera seria) at the time differed from English music theatre tradition in that the former was sung throughout whereas the latter contained large part of spoken words. I suppose people expected Handel’s opera to be as Italian as it could be.

Roehre

…in terms of stageability they deserve to be buried 6 feet under

As for modern staging, Handel seems to be such an easy target for ‘creative’ producers/directors that I much prefer just listening to them (the operas, not the directors).

The ENO’s Rodelinda was wonderfully sung but (I posted this elsewhere) I was really not sure if I liked to hear Rodelinda singing ‘Oh my darling husband, oh my darling husband…’ I find it hard to follow English when it is sung. I’d rather concentrate on listen to the music with the knowledge of what is being sung rather than having to actually listening to the words.

I can’t find the reference but I have read it somewhere very recently that in Germany, an opera was sung in German and Italian. I think it was something like arias were sung in Italian and recitative in German but this may be my misremembering.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I can’t find the reference but I have read it somewhere very recently that in Germany, an opera was sung in German and Italian. I think it was something like arias were sung in Italian and recitative in German but this may be my misremembering.

Yes - I've heard stories like this, too: often a soloist taking over from someone indisposed, only for said replacement to know the role only in the original/local language, so that Tristan sings in German, Isolde in Italian (and, sometimes, Brangene in French as well).

[Bryn]

I must admit I get more than a little confused by the way opera producers often go out of their way to ensure as close as can be achieved approximations to HIPP where the music is concerned, but cast such considerations to one side when it comes to all other aspects of the production.

[Roehre]

I must admit I get more than a little confused by the way opera producers often go out of their way to ensure as close as can be achieved approximations to HIPP where the music is concerned, but cast such considerations to one side when it comes to all other aspects of the production.

As I do. This attitude of opera producers essentially has stopped me attending opera productions.
I am by default especially not interested in opera producers' wish to make a production "relevant" for the present time and age.

[verismissimo]

... Handel's operas are superb works - I believe him to be the most overlooked of the great Opera composers.

I'd put Haydn ahead of him, ferney. All of Haydn's operas, written for an Austria-Hungary context (ie German speaking), were composed to Italian libretti.

They strike me as musically excellent and more convincing dramatically than Handel's. The main problem in my experience is that they are usually performed with second-rate singers, musicians, designers, producers etc.

[richardfinegold]

I
And if the words were even heard, would they have been understood? The audience would probably have included a small subset of those who knew Italian from the "Grand Tour", but there were as many who could understand but found the whole entertainment ludicrous. Intellectual pretension is no sustainable basis for a public entertainment, which is why, after a few wildly successful years, Handel was reduced to soliciting for custom within the previously aloof Jewish and out-of-theatrical-season markets (oratorios).

It is still possible achieve considerable popularity in a language apparently arcane to the recipient audience. In the 50s/60s skiffle and blues were overwhelmingly popular in the UK. One could understand empathy with Delta bluesmen (a universal condition, if not entirely transferable to the Severn Delta), but what was the relevance of e.g. brakemen on the Rock Island Line? That particular foreign culture was ultimately "english'd" (term of Elizabethan origin) and made relevant here: sheer misery, Black Country, the iniquity of estate life, etc. all encapsulated in 12 years of Slade.

"Jewish" Oratorio Market?
Are you trying to say that Handel used Old Testament Themes for his Oratorios? Or that the patrons for the Oratorios were primarily Jewish?

[Flosshilde]

I must admit I get more than a little confused by the way opera producers often go out of their way to ensure as close as can be achieved approximations to HIPP where the music is concerned, but cast such considerations to one side when it comes to all other aspects of the production.

Possibly because there are very few 18th century theatres left, most of them having burnt down; speaking of which, it would probably be imposible to get insurance for a building lit entirely by candles.

& I doubt that many prima donnas would relish being thrown out of the window (as Handel did with one of his) (I might have got that a bit wrong ), and finding suitable castrati might be difficult.


Actually Lina Lalandi did a pretty good job with the English Bach Festival productions.