New releases

[DublinJimbo]

The Pacifica played these quartets in concerts at the University of Chicago's Mandel Hall. I heard two of the concerts and wished that I could have attended the entire cycle. I don't know if the recordings were culled from these concerts. Are there notes supplied with the downloads? And what site did you download from? Are these DSD or PCM?

Yes, a PDF version of the CD booklet is available to download. Recording details are as follows: Shostakovich Quartets Nos. 13 and 14: December 16–18, 2012; Shostakovich
Quartet No. 15 and Schnittke Quartet No. 3: August 24–26, 2013. All recordings were made in the Auer Hall, Indiana University Bloomington.

I downloaded these and the other releases direct from the Cedille site (my message #690 includes a link to the download page for this final volume). We're talking PCM.

[richardfinegold]

Yes, a PDF version of the CD booklet is available to download. Recording details are as follows: Shostakovich Quartets Nos. 13 and 14: December 16–18, 2012; Shostakovich
Quartet No. 15 and Schnittke Quartet No. 3: August 24–26, 2013. All recordings were made in the Auer Hall, Indiana University Bloomington.

I downloaded these and the other releases direct from the Cedille site (my message #690 includes a link to the download page for this final volume). We're talking PCM.

Thanks, DJ. Cedille is a Chicago based label and I guess I just assumed that the Chicago Concerts were used for the recordings, and I'm relieved to find out that it wasn't. Mandel Hall isn't any acoustic marvel, and previous Cedille recordings taken from concerts there have always struck me as somewhat dry and lacking in resonance. The concerts were exciting, none the less, and I think the Pacifica doesn't get the recognition that they deserve, but then there are so many great Quartets around these days that it is easy to get overlooked.

[Dave2002]

I downloaded these and the other releases direct from the Cedille site (my message #690 includes a link to the download page for this final volume). We're talking PCM.

Curious the interest in PCM. Even if the recordings might have been recorded using other methods, for downloads surely almost every distributor will use PCM. Equipment which will play DSD data is available, but the cheapest that I have been aware of was over £1000, and a most of it is for professional use. Also, despite some early enthusiasm for DSD recordings, perhaps put about by some companies because it suited their commercial needs, there doesn't seem now to be a lot of evidence that they are any better than standard PCM recordings. Possibly DSD and similar techniques had advantages for recording engineers a decade or two ago, but techniques and equipment for both PCM and DSD have improved a lot. There doesn't appear to be a need for consumer level DSD recordings.

[richardfinegold]

Curious the interest in PCM. Even if the recordings might have been recorded using other methods, for downloads surely almost every distributor will use PCM. Equipment which will play DSD data is available, but the cheapest that I have been aware of was over £1000, and a most of it is for professional use. Also, despite some early enthusiasm for DSD recordings, perhaps put about by some companies because it suited their commercial needs, there doesn't seem now to be a lot of evidence that they are any better than standard PCM recordings. Possibly DSD and similar techniques had advantages for recording engineers a decade or two ago, but techniques and equipment for both PCM and DSD have improved a lot. There doesn't appear to be a need for consumer level DSD recordings.

DSD downloads are being offered, and they cost about 3 times as much as the High Resolution PCM download that DublinJim just bought. A purchaser would also have had to made the investment in a DAC that decodes DSD, currently ranging from $200 to $10,000. I haven't heard any DSD downloads, but since I love the sounds of SACDs, I would be curious to hear them. However, At these prices, and with the hardware purchases required, I think that DSD downloads will struggle in the market place.

[HighlandDougie]

I recall that Dublin Jimbo has already sung its praises (and PG seems to like it too) but, despite my vow to buy no more Mahler CDs for the rest of the year, the new Ivan Fischer Mahler 5th is, even by his high standards, very fine indeed. The Scherzo (my touchstone for whether conductors "get" this work or not) comes off really well -ditto an Adagietto which flows and doesn't get bogged down. Stellar orchestral playing and recording of the highest class - indeed, one of the best Mahler recordings I'v ever heard.

Now for Jonathan Nott's new 6th which arrived at the same time.

[Dave2002]

DSD downloads are being offered, and they cost about 3 times as much as the High Resolution PCM download that DublinJim just bought. A purchaser would also have had to made the investment in a DAC that decodes DSD, currently ranging from $200 to $10,000. I haven't heard any DSD downloads, but since I love the sounds of SACDs, I would be curious to hear them. However, At these prices, and with the hardware purchases required, I think that DSD downloads will struggle in the market place.

Interesting! I didn't think you'd have any DSD DACs under $1000, though even if you can get one for $200 there's no certainty that it would sound better than a conventional PCM unit for a similar price. Perhaps if you wanted to upgrade your system a good DSD DAC could be found and purchased, but then the additional cost of the downloads would also be a deterrent. How does the sound of the SACDs you like compare with the high res downloads you've tried?

[jayne lee wilson]

Well, the latest iteration of the Benchmark DAC does DSD, but Keith Howard (HFN) didn't like the DSD download sound anymore than he usually likes SACD...

What you need is a DAC which makes CD sound so good the hi-res questions become sublimely irrelevant......

[Dave2002]

Well, the latest iteration of the Benchmark DAC does DSD, but Keith Howard (HFN) didn't like the DSD download sound anymore than he usually likes SACD...

What you need is a DAC which makes CD sound so good the hi-res questions become sublimely irrelevant......

As near $2k as make no difference - http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac2-hgc

I guess you may be suggesting more than that for a good system.

[Bryn]

Blow me, here's a personal first. In the middle of CD Review this morning I've pre-ordered a disc! The Andras Steier Diabelli Var's (Beethoven's of course but also others from D's published anthology) on a contemporary fortepiano with lots of bells and whistles like a Janissary 'stop' it sounded absolutely wonderful, and revelatory on what 'special effects' noises LvB might reasonably have expected on the fp's of his time.

The good news on the pre-order is that the disc is out tomorrow so not too much wait

If you have not done so already, I recommend you add the recent Schiff double CD album of the Beethoven Diabelli Variation (x2) plus opera 111 and 126 on ECM. Really insightful readings, plus excellent booklet notes by Paul Griffiths and by Schiff himself (in self 'interview'). You get the Diabellis on both a 1921 Bechstein (the very instrument beloved of Backhaus) and a c. 1820 instrument by Franz Brodmann. Op. 111 uses the Bechstein and Op. 126 the Brodmann.

[richardfinegold]

Interesting! I didn't think you'd have any DSD DACs under $1000, though even if you can get one for $200 there's no certainty that it would sound better than a conventional PCM unit for a similar price. Perhaps if you wanted to upgrade your system a good DSD DAC could be found and purchased, but then the additional cost of the downloads would also be a deterrent. How does the sound of the SACDs you like compare with the high res downloads you've tried?

iFI Audio offers a "nano" DAC that does DSD for $189.00 Don't know if there is a dealer on your side of the pond. I would consider buying it if I thought that DSD downloads were in my future, but at current prices, that isn't going to happen.
I prefer SACD to High Res Downloads. I own two SACDs that I also purchased as High Res downloads so that I could make comparisons. I thought that the differences were negligible and I dislike faffing with computers (although I am burning many CDs as a concession to space requirements).

[richardfinegold]

Well, the latest iteration of the Benchmark DAC does DSD, but Keith Howard (HFN) didn't like the DSD download sound anymore than he usually likes SACD...

What you need is a DAC which makes CD sound so good the hi-res questions become sublimely irrelevant......

I am not a fan of the Benchmark sound. To lean and mean, particularly in the midrange. There are many other DSD DACs besides Benchmark and iFi, ranging from $800 (TEAC) to stratospheric (the usual suspects). M2Tech goes for $1500.00, and that is one that I woud like to hear. I predict that DSD DACs will be coming down in price and recommend waiting a couple of years.

[richardfinegold]

If you have not done so already, I recommend you add the recent Schiff double CD album of the Beethoven Diabelli Variation (x2) plus opera 111 and 126 on ECM. Really insightful readings, plus excellent booklet notes by Paul Griffiths and by Schiff himself (in self 'interview'). You get the Diabellis on both a 1921 Bechstein (the very instrument beloved of Backhaus) and a c. 1820 instrument by Franz Brodmann. Op. 111 uses the Bechstein and Op. 126 the Brodmann.

I really enjoyed Schiff's (older) Bach recordings, on Decca, but intensely disliked his Schubert Sonatas. Haven't heard any LvB by him.

[Dave2002]

I prefer SACD to High Res Downloads. I own two SACDs that I also purchased as High Res downloads so that I could make comparisons. I thought that the differences were negligible and I dislike faffing with computers (although I am burning many CDs as a concession to space requirements).

It sounds as though it's not sound quality alone which is driving your views, and that there is little to choose in your opinion between the SQ of SACDs and High Res downloads. An additional factor for some SACDs is the possibility of multi-channel surround, though I note that there are now some multi-channel downloads.

It might be better now to continue this in an other location - maybe the Techie board? Is that OK with you? I'll knock up an opener.

[richardfinegold]

It sounds as though it's not sound quality alone which is driving your views, and that there is little to choose in your opinion between the SQ of SACDs and High Res downloads. An additional factor for some SACDs is the possibility of multi-channel surround, though I note that there are now some multi-channel downloads.

It might be better now to continue this in an other location - maybe the Techie board? Is that OK with you? I'll knock up an opener.

I purchased the download of the Pacifica Qt that DublinJIm recommended, and it didn't successfully download. i am contacting Cedille's web master, but this is an example of why I dislike downloads.

[HighlandDougie]

this is an example of why I dislike downloads.

My - so far sole - purchase of an earlier volume from this series resulted in the same experience as Richard and it took Cedille some time to respond (and, in fairness, apologise and supply the missing file). I don't think, though, that Cedille's pretty basic download service should necessarily jaundice anyone against downloads in general as the service provided by, inter alia, e-classical, Qobuz, Hyperion, and, God help us, Apple is by now pretty slick and seamless. When things go wrong (very rarely in my experience), they tend to get put right very quickly. And it's such an easy way to access a vast wealth of music, after all.