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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    Originally posted by Goon525 View Post
    A last comment from me on Hough's Beethoven. I had a second listen to No 1 this morning, I think it's one of the better recordings in the set, and I should accentuate the positives: Hough's wonderful playing, his ability to float pianissimos, the rather gorgeous gruff bass sounds from his Bosendorfer (a good choice), nothing much to complain about from the orchestra. But then, on a whim, I checked on Qobuz to see if they had the set I learned these works from - Ashkenazy/CSO/Solti, released 1973, and bought by me when it was newly out. (I was an early convert to CD, and later bought Ashkenazy's remake with Mehta: not as good.) I haven't listened to this set in probably 40 years, and was delighted to see that not only did Qobuz have it, they had a fairly recent 24/96 remastering. So I decided to sample the first movement of No 1. It's really good (so I stayed to the end), big bold orchestral playing with lots of forward momentum, and plenty of character in the woodwind playing (I know, I know, hold the front page - Chicago 1970s winds better than a Finnish radio orchestra. But still, it's true.) Ashkenazy? Well, he was at his peak at the time, and you can hear why he was (arguably, like everything) maybe the number one Beethoven player in the world at that moment. Unfortunately, once he started conducting, he lost it a bit as a pianist. Oh, and the recording? Well, it would be lèse majesté to criticise it, as it was made by the legendary Kenneth Wilkinson. The hall, of which one can hear plenty, is rather reverberant, but this all contributes to a big beefy Beethoven sound which I find still appeals - to me, anyway, and the balance is fine between piano and orchestra. I actually prefer Hough's Bösendorfer to Ashkenazy's Steinway, but as a package, I think this is a case where the best is the enemy of the good.
    Fine recording, well balanced piano (its image/presence here is very similar to Hough's.....). but, stunning in themselves, the fabulous CSO is far too mighty for this music to my present ears heart and brain, and I find little wrong with the Finnish winds (the CSO are sweeter more espressivo, but after KA/Willens and OWA/Haselbock etc, I prefer a different tonal purity) ... ...when the FRSO come in in the finale, they are far more agile and flexible...you don't mention the slow movement, which is a marvel of tenderness and beauty from all the Hyperion performers (true of all the Hough concertos)...

    But that's the problem with such comparisons (especially with old, large symphony-orchestra favourites or older much-reissued official great conductors...): leading away from, rather than toward, a deep appreciation of a fresh recording... yes, comparisons are inescapable; but we have to consider what we are doing when we make them...to our own musical responses and our heavily edited and emotionally- often nostalgically-biased memories. "Nothing like Klemps, Haitink or Solti" etc....
    I guess I just find it a dated, uninteresting approach. Something closer to like-with-like is more interesting...so Brautigam and Wallisch say; but Hough and Lintu aren't so far from those as to make a comparison uninteresting...

    My own approach is always to sink into, saturate myself with, any given new release... live with it on its own sonic&musical terms, for days or weeks on end, avoiding anything else (apart perhaps from some Gesualdan ambience...)...
    I did this with Wallisch and Hough... still going back to them now.....)
    The FRSO is in any case chamber-orchestrally sized, which makes such a comparison even more problematic...

    What do you think of RO's comments on the 1st (dim., and espressivo, etc).....see the blog for my own detailed comments on the whole set...after three times through at least...)


    I said.....

    "If you take RO's critique of the initial 4-note phrase in 1 (i).... the diminuendo isn't "dabbed" on the last note, it flows through the whole phrase; and it isn't played that way throughout the movement, far from it.... so there is a thought-through "method-in-the-madness"...which is a surely (merely!) very subtle freedom in the interpretive approach....putting this on earlier to check this detail, I had to continue through the whole movement: it would have been a self-abnegation of musical hedonism not to....
    (...and complaining of "unmarked espressivo phrasing" is surely taking reverence into the realms of pedantry).

    Again, just to pick out a supposedly unwritten silence in 4 (ii) cause by the piano's "etiolation" (a delicately sustained fade, a moment, and a movement, I marvelled at, breath bated, never hearing anything overextended), is to overlook the many beauties in the whole performance, not least that continuously responsive exchange between soloist/orchesta (i.e. conductor)....the very fact that Lintu isn't a "well-schooled kapellmeister" let alone a Klemperer or a Haitink, is a main reason why this cycle is so fresh and revitalising... all the performers are coming to the music with a sense of excitement and discovery..."....
    Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 19-05-20, 14:32.

    Comment

    • Barbirollians
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 11668

      Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
      Fine recording, well balanced piano (its image/presence here is very similar to Hough's.....). but, stunning in themselves, the fabulous CSO is far too mighty for this music to my present ears heart and brain, and I find little wrong with the Finnish winds (the CSO are sweeter more espressivo, but after KA/Willens and OWA/Haselbock etc, I prefer a different tonal purity) ... ...when the FRSO come in in the finale, they are far more agile and flexible...you don't mention the slow movement, which is a marvel of tenderness and beauty from all the Hyperion performers (true of all the Hough concertos)...

      But that's the problem with such comparisons (especially with old, large symphony-orchestra favourites or older much-reissued official great conductors...): leading away from, rather than toward, a deep appreciation of a fresh recording... yes, comparisons are inescapable; but we have to consider what we are doing when we make them...to our own musical responses and our heavily edited and emotionally- often nostalgically-biased memories. "Nothing like Klemps, Haitink or Solti" etc....
      I guess I just find it a dated, uninteresting approach. Something closer to like-with-like is more interesting...so Brautigam and Wallisch say; but Hough and Lintu aren't so far from those as to make a comparison uninteresting...

      My own approach is always to sink into, saturate myself with, any given new release... live with it on its own sonic&musical terms, for days or weeks on end, avoiding anything else (apart perhaps from some Gesualdan ambience...)...
      I did this with Wallisch and Hough... still going back to them now.....)
      The FRSO is in any case chamber-orchestrally sized, which makes such a comparison even more problematic...

      What do you think of RO's comments on the 1st (dim., and espressivo, etc).....see the blog for my own detailed comments on the whole set...after three times through at least...)


      I said.....

      "If you take RO's critique of the initial 4-note phrase in 1 (i).... the diminuendo isn't "dabbed" on the last note, it flows through the whole phrase; and it isn't played that way throughout the movement, far from it.... so there is a thought-through "method-in-the-madness"...which is a surely (merely!) very subtle freedom in the interpretive approach....putting this on earlier to check this detail, I had to continue through the whole movement: it would have been a self-abnegation of musical hedonism not to....
      (...and complaining of "unmarked espressivo phrasing" is surely taking reverence into the realms of pedantry).

      Again, just to pick out a supposedly unwritten silence in 4 (ii) cause by the piano's "etiolation" (a delicately sustained fade, a moment, and a movement, I marvelled at, breath bated, never hearing anything overextended), is to overlook the many beauties in the whole performance, not least that continuously responsive exchange between soloist/orchesta (i.e. conductor)....the very fact that Lintu isn't a "well-schooled kapellmeister" let alone a Klemperer or a Haitink, is a main reason why this cycle is so fresh and revitalising... all the performers are coming to the music with a sense of excitement and discovery..."....
      We can at least be thankful Currentzis isn't conducting - he would have insisted on a CD for each concerto

      Comment

      • Barbirollians
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 11668

        I have not yet listened to the Fourth but the new Helmchen/Manze recording of the First on Alpha is terrific .

        Comment

        • jayne lee wilson
          Banned
          • Jul 2011
          • 10711

          Originally posted by Barbirollians View Post
          We can at least be thankful Currentzis isn't conducting - he would have insisted on a CD for each concerto
          LOL!

          Sorry to tell you this but..... the Hough/Lintu 5th is.... alone on its own CD....... still at £20 the set is supposed to be a 3 for 2!
          But prices are pretty arbitrary now...

          Maybe they don't like Op.61a....(now there's a work just made for a Graf, Bayer or Fritz....revelation on those.)
          Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 20-05-20, 02:52.

          Comment

          • akiralx
            Full Member
            • Oct 2011
            • 426

            Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
            Fine recording, well balanced piano (its image/presence here is very similar to Hough's.....). but, stunning in themselves, the fabulous CSO is far too mighty for this music to my present ears heart and brain, and I find little wrong with the Finnish winds (the CSO are sweeter more espressivo, but after KA/Willens and OWA/Haselbock etc, I prefer a different tonal purity) ... ...when the FRSO come in in the finale, they are far more agile and flexible...you don't mention the slow movement, which is a marvel of tenderness and beauty from all the Hyperion performers (true of all the Hough concertos)...
            I tend to agree, I can never listen to full size orchestras in #1 and 2, though Schiff + (a slimmed down?) Staatskapelle Dresden under Haitink are my favourite recording for #1.

            How does Hough compare with Sudbin, if you know those recordings - I think he is terrific in #2, his clarity and hair-trigger articulation in the finale brings out the slight zaniness of the work. I don't find him so memorable in the later concertos, though they are fine of course.

            Comment

            • Barbirollians
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 11668

              The Fourth in the Helmchen/Manze set is also outstanding with a particularly compelling slow movement .

              Comment

              • MrGongGong
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 18357

                This is rather wonderful

                Comment

                • HighlandDougie
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 3080

                  Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                  Most definitely! Another great find from the Bandcamp universe.

                  Comment

                  • MrGongGong
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 18357

                    Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
                    Most definitely! Another great find from the Bandcamp universe.
                    Always good to see your mates doing well

                    Dave, you should get this

                    Comment

                    • mathias broucek
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 1303

                      New 450 Jahre Staatskapelle Berlin DG box 15CD is only £38 on Amazon UK

                      Some interesting stuff I have only on unofficial bootlegs and quite a bit that’s new to me!

                      Contents below

                      Comment

                      • jayne lee wilson
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 10711

                        Something old, something new.... remasterings too....

                        Listen to Jascha Horenstein in unlimited on Qobuz and buy the albums in Hi-Res 24-Bit for an unequalled sound quality. Subscription from £10.83/month


                        ...uh-oh.....CD3/trk3 is only 00'02 long..... shame its the Bruckner 8 (iii).....it does cut off - I checked.... an error repeated elsewhere in this Qobuz Stream... oh well....

                        Next please.....!
                        Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 22-05-20, 19:32.

                        Comment

                        • jpegasus
                          Full Member
                          • May 2017
                          • 20

                          A newish 6 CD set of Ignaz Friedman's recordings, already reviewed here:


                          6 CD-Rs, in a double-sized jewel case with discs coming out from everywhere, with a miserable booklet - only six pages for the track listing and notes, and most of those are about the record label (Danacord are very pleased with themselves). The CDs are not particularly well filled - perhaps the extra space could have been used for the items the booklet acknowledges are missing. And is there a logic behind the distribution of pieces among the discs?

                          Comment

                          • Sir Velo
                            Full Member
                            • Oct 2012
                            • 3225

                            Originally posted by Goon525 View Post
                            Now the Benedetti Elgar, that’s a different matter (it’s already out in all but physical media). I’ve always thought her very good, but maybe not quite Champions League - the competition, even just amongst women, is incredibly strong at the moment. But this Elgar performance has persuaded me to elevate her, and also get to grips with what I’ve always found rather an elusive work for the first time. (I still think a 19 minute finale is about 10 too many in a sensibly proportioned concerto.) NB’s tone I find really winning, its not a golden stream which can get boring (think Zukerman), but there’s just a hint of edge too it which I find winning. And she’s really thought through her interpretation. All this is true of the extras too.
                            I agree with all of this although I think Benedetti has already earned her place in the firmament before this release. It is a deeply felt, considered performance and if the pace occasionally slackens in the slow movement that can be forgiven I think due to the intensely personal nature of the piece. It's in the virtuosic passages in the first and third movements, however, that a violinist really shows where their ability level lies and here, Benedetti definitely has the measure of the work. It will be interesting to hear if pastoral guy has the same response!

                            I wouldn't quite award the recording five star, as there are orchestral details which seem to remain somewhat murky at least in this Qobuz mastering. There isn't quite the bloom on the orchestral sound; however this will not have me paying extra for a download. The Qobuz offering is quite sufficient and, of course, it gives you in the vast majority of cases a pdf of the booklet, which marks Qobuz out from the opposition.

                            Comment

                            • Goon525
                              Full Member
                              • Feb 2014
                              • 597

                              Warmly agree about Qobuz's booklet benefit. But there isn't a specific 'Qobuz mastering' of this recording - I think you'll find it sounds just the same on a download or a stream bought from anyone. I was happy enough with the sound (Qobuz HiRes stream), but as I'm planning a second listen, I'll try and spot any murkiness!

                              Comment

                              • Sir Velo
                                Full Member
                                • Oct 2012
                                • 3225

                                Originally posted by Goon525 View Post
                                But there isn't a specific 'Qobuz mastering' of this recording - I think you'll find it sounds just the same on a download or a stream bought from anyone.
                                Agree on the "mastering" point! "Transfer" would have been better.

                                Point I was trying to make, rather inelegantly, was that there have in the past been accusations that some of the actual transfers used by Qobuz have suffered by being of poorer quality. Not sure why that should have been the case, or even whether that is the case here. It may be down to localised streaming issues at the time I listened. Certainly, when streaming one's perception of sound quality is influenced by factors such as the time of day, use of other electrical equipment, devices accessing the internet; volume etc.

                                Comment

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