Rollover Beethoven

[jayne lee wilson]

What do we want from a Cadenza?
What do we want from this thing called Classical Music, in the future?
From beloved masterpieces?

Stunning Beethoven, truly wonderful... and then.....LOOK OUT!

Widmann's (extensive ) cadenzas surely the scandalisation of some reviewers....or the salvation of others....
So - timpani in the 1st Beethoven cadenza - but not as we knew it......!
The soloist disappears upwards toward the end of the larghetto...then warms back down into melody..lifts off, again into adventure........ moving beyond what we know, then...slowly...back in....
In the finale? A trio for Violin, Cello and timpani...
I loved it.



One hell of a musical event, anyway.....terrific!

Beethoven: Violin Concerto

Veronika Eberle, Sir Simon Rattle, London Symphony Orchestra

• Released on 24/02/2023 by LSO Live
• Main artists: Veronika Eberle London Symphony Orchestra Sir Simon Rattle
• Genre: Concertos
• QOBUZ 24/192

[kernelbogey]

So - timpani in the 1st Beethoven cadenza - but not as we knew it......!

Is this the same cadenza as - and I can't remember his name* - the one the violinist who took the cadenza with timps from Beethoven's transcription for piano of the violin concerto?

(*But it's hovering, I can feel, on the edge of my consciousness.)

Ach ja, Wolfgang Schneiderhan?

[richardfinegold]

Is this the same cadenza as - and I can't remember his name* - the one the violinist who took the cadenza with timps from Beethoven's transcription for piano of the violin concerto?

(*But it's hovering, I can feel, on the edge of my consciousness.)

Ach ja, Wolfgang Schneiderhan?

That’s what it sounds like. I heard Kavakos use that cadenza a few years ago. I’m afraid that I wasn’t as much of a fan as jlw

[LHC]

Is this the same cadenza as - and I can't remember his name* - the one the violinist who took the cadenza with timps from Beethoven's transcription for piano of the violin concerto?

(*But it's hovering, I can feel, on the edge of my consciousness.)

Ach ja, Wolfgang Schneiderhan?

No, as JLW states, and as is shown on the sleeve in the picture, these are new cadenzas by Jorg Widman

[pastoralguy]

Jayne, I’m sure you must be aware of the cd Ricci made of the Beethoven concerto where he plays multiple cadenzas. You simply programme the cadenza you want into the machine and off you go! (He also made a similar recording of the Brahms concerto).

[Barbirollians]

Jayne, I’m sure you must be aware of the cd Ricci made of the Beethoven concerto where he plays multiple cadenzas. You simply programme the cadenza you want into the machine and off you go! (He also made a similar recording of the Brahms concerto).

I much prefer the Kreisler to any other because it is much the best - even above Joachim's efforts. I do not like the use of Beethoven's cadenza for the piano arrangement the timpani seems designed to complement the sound of a piano - surely if he thought that should be used for the violin concerto itself he would have said so in the score ?

[Bryn]

I much prefer the Kreisler to any other because it is much the best - even above Joachim's efforts. I do not like the use of Beethoven's cadenza for the piano arrangement the timpani seems designed to complement the sound of a piano - surely if he thought that should be used for the violin concerto itself he would have said so in the score ?

Difficult to find anything to concur with, there. At least the cadenza for Op. 61a was composed by Beethoven. Well done Pat Kop for dueting with the leader to incorporate more of it in the version she plays.

[Barbirollians]

Difficult to find anything to concur with, there. At least the cadenza for Op. 61a was composed by Beethoven. Well done Pat Kop for dueting with the leader to incorporate more of it in the version she plays.

Ah well we cannot all agree on everything. Isn't that the point though Beethoven composed it for Op61a not for Op61 .

[Bryn]

Ah well we cannot all agree on everything. Isn't that the point though Beethoven composed it for Op61a not for Op61 .

No, it's not the point. It's just your clutch at a straw.

[Barbirollians]

No, it's not the point. It's just your clutch at a straw.

I think being offensive shows you have no answer to the point

Beethoven did not write a cadenza for Op 61 - he left it to the performer.

He wrote one for Op61a . He wrote many for his piano concertos. The cadenza for op61a sounds like one for a piano concerto deliberately so . I don't think it works for Op 61 and sticks out like a sore thumb - you don't.

[Bryn]

I think being offensive shows you have no answer to the point

Beethoven did not write a cadenza for Op 61 - he left it to the performer.

He wrote one for Op61a . He wrote many for his piano concertos. The cadenza for op61a sounds like one for a piano concerto deliberately so . I don't think it works for Op 61 and sticks out like a sore thumb - you don't.

I did, indeed, take some offence at the assertion that a cadenza by a 20th Century violinist was "the best". Schneiderhan's abandonment of his former use of the Joachim in favour of his own, based on that composed for Op 61a by Beethoven, offers the best of both worlds, a meeting of great musical minds. Beethoven chose to open the concerto with subdued timps. How apposite for them to contribute, also, to the first movement cadenza.

[Barbirollians]

To my ears it is much the best - Kreisler probably would rank as one of the best violinists ever to play the piece and his cadenza is immensely sympathetic to Beethoven's music and wonderfully written for the violin .

[jayne lee wilson]

No, as JLW states, and as is shown on the sleeve in the picture, these are new cadenzas by Jorg Widman

Thankyou LHC.

All three movements have original Widmann cadenzas, of far greater musical variety and (often startling) wide-ranging instrumental effects than any previously. Around 5', the 1st movement cadenza is even longer than Beethoven's Op.61a effort, very extreme in its expressive, thematic and instrumental range (we range far into the 20thC here...), and of much richer musical interest and drama than Beethoven's own. It even refers to the finale at one point, and there is a prominent part for cello which becomes a major contributor to the trio-cadenza of the finale.

But the cadenzas all stay focussed on the work itself, throughout their wildly inventive paths. This performance just has to be heard, and I hope we will get more like this, just as I hope more pianists will take up the challenge of much more free improvisation and ornament in Mozart Piano Concertos, now Levin has made a triumphant rapprochement with his series on his new release.

MAKE IT NEW!

[jayne lee wilson]

Delighted at the high praise offered up to this recording by Rob Cowan in the Glorious Centenary Gramophone! He gives especial attention to the extraordinary cadenzas, which are the initial USB, yes - but this is in all respects an outstanding performance on SACD or stream, gorgeously recorded in Jerwood Hall, LSO St. Lukes.

D-N-M!

[Alison]

Rubbished by Hurwitz