Mahler 2 (NYPO/CSO, Walter)

[Bryn]

Can anyone here throw some light on the 1957/8 Walter recording of Mahler's 'Resurrection Symphony? One CD release of it attributes the orchestral contribution to the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (no mention of the NYPO). I have seen it recently suggested on FB that while the main recording sessions were with the NYPO, following his heart problems, a resurrected Walter had to finish off the sessions with his CSO Hollywood pick-up band. Any further information would be welcome.

[Pianoman]

Ralph Moore in his MW review suggests that the original Columbia SO billing was purely contractual and it was always the NYPO, as it now appears on the Pristine transfer I have.

[Petrushka]

Can anyone here throw some light on the 1957/8 Walter recording of Mahler's 'Resurrection Symphony? One CD release of it attributes the orchestral contribution to the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (no mention of the NYPO). I have seen it recently suggested on FB that while the main recording sessions were with the NYPO, following his heart problems, a resurrected Walter had to finish off the sessions with his CSO Hollywood pick-up band. Any further information would be welcome.

The Bruno Walter Complete Columbia Album Collection gives the recording as being the NYPO and recorded in Carnegie Hall, New York on February 18 1957 (mvts 4 & 5), February 17 1958 (mvt 1) and February 21 1958 (mvts 2 & 3). There is no mention in the book accompanying the box of any involvement by the Columbia Symphony Orchestra nor has there been on any of the recordings I've had of it. Any such anomaly would have been mentioned in the book because it is elsewhere, see below.

My guess is that the FB informant is getting mixed up with a 1949 recording of the Beethoven 'Choral' where Walter wasn't satisfied with the recording of the last movement and, as he wanted to have the Westminster Choir, instead of bringing the choir to LA the recording team decided to use the NYPO (called the 'Columbia Symphony Orchestra' for this purpose) and recorded a new last movement in New York in 1953. The whole complicated saga, of which this is an outline, is told in the book.

[HighlandDougie]

Apologies, Petrushka! Bit of cross-posting. The Bruno Walter Discography (http://www.bwdiscography.com/) lists the recording being made with the NYPO on 18 February 1957 (coinciding with concerts) and on 17 and 21 February 1958. A reference in https://yale.universitypressscholars...130-chapter-17 cites Walter as giving a concert with the NYPO on 26 February 1958, as in https://archives.nyphil.org/index.ph...age/1/mode/2up. Which isn't to say that he didn't "fill in" with the Columbia SO/LAPO in LA before travelling to New York. But, then, there is an explicit reference in http://www.musicweb-international.co...y2_PASC385.htm to the first movement being recorded on 17 February and the 2nd/3rd movements on 21 February in the Carnegie Hall. So, on balance, whatever might be said on F/book, my surmise is that it is the NYPO throughout, unless the Columbia SO was used for later "touching-up".

[Bryn]

The Bruno Walter Complete Columbia Album Collection gives the recording as being the NYPO and recorded in Carnegie Hall, New York on February 18 1957 (mvts 4 & 5), February 17 1958 (mvt 1) and February 21 1958 (mvts 2 & 3). There is no mention in the book accompanying the box of any involvement by the Columbia Symphony Orchestra nor has there been on any of the recordings I've had of it. Any such anomaly would have been mentioned in the book because it is elsewhere, see below.

My guess is that the FB informant is getting mixed up with a 1949 recording of the Beethoven 'Choral' where Walter wasn't satisfied with the recording of the last movement and, as he wanted to have the Westminster Choir, instead of bringing the choir to LA the recording team decided to use the NYPO (called the 'Columbia Symphony Orchestra' for this purpose) and recorded a new last movement in New York in 1953. The whole complicated saga, of which this is an outline, is told in the book.

This old CD release's fron cover does not help:



from https://www.discogs.com/Mahler-Bruno...lease/14033206

[Petrushka]

This old CD release's fron cover does not help:



from https://www.discogs.com/Mahler-Bruno...lease/14033206

I'm not sure whether I still have that set as all of my duplicates are stored upstairs apart from ones given to charity shops etc and may take some time to dig out. The CBS Masterworks LP box, which obviously predates that CD and coupled with the first symphony, says NYPO. My memory, which may be faulty, is that the CD pictured also included the first symphony though I may be thinking of a later reissue.

[richardfinegold]

I'm not sure whether I still have that set as all of my duplicates are stored upstairs apart from ones given to charity shops etc and may take some time to dig out. The CBS Masterworks LP box, which obviously predates that CD and coupled with the first symphony, says NYPO. My memory, which may be faulty, is that the CD pictured also included the first symphony though I may be thinking of a later reissue.

I had an lp reissue in the Seventies that listed the Orchestra as the NYP.
My understanding was that the Columbia SO term was used when the actual Orchestra involved couldn’t be named for contractual purposes. Several of the Szell/Casadesus recordings list that were actually made with a reduced contingent of the Cleveland SO used the term, as well as various NYPhil and LAPO recordings.

[gradus]

Was the stereo Mahler 9 actually with the LAPO?

[HighlandDougie]

Was the stereo Mahler 9 actually with the LAPO?

Although the portmanteau title "Columbia Symphony Orchestra" covers various locations and a variety of composers/conductors, not least in LA, with, for instance, Stravinsky supposedly favouring a different group of players (less LAPO, more freelancers from various studio ensembles) than Bruno Walter, it would be reasonable from anecdotal evidence to assume that the Columbia Symphony Orchestra which assembled in the American Legion Hollywood Post 43 Hall (see http://wikimapia.org/24880342/Hollyw...Legion-Post-43) on 16th, 18th, 21st and 30th January 1961 to record Mahler's 9th under the baton of BW contained more than a few LAPO players.

[Barbirollians]

My later reissue says NYPO .

[HighlandDougie]

The reference above to the NYPO had me look up the NYPO digital archive (a formidable resource). The NYPO's first performance of Mahler 9 wasn't until 20/21 December 1945, with Walter conducting. That was the first half of the concert (!). Beethoven's PC 3 with Rudolf Firkusny formed the second half.

That was it as far as Mahler 9 was concerned with the NYPO until January 1960 when it was conducted by Mitropoulos and then in December 1962 by Sir John Barbirolli. So BW only conducted the work with the NYPO on that one occasion - and I think it can be said with some certainty that he never recorded it with that orchestra.

[gradus]

Thanks for the research - Walter's stereo is still my favourite recording of Mahler 9 closely followed his original VPO recording. Its not that there aren't better played performances, its Walter.