Ravel's Bolero

[Alain Maréchal]

Exactly the kind of ignorant snobbery the piece needs saving from. She was clearly just stupid enough to think she was intelligent.

I found no pejorative element or snobbishness in that item. Unless my command of English is at fault, and that is quite possible, she was correcting, wittily, a then common misapprehension about the correct tempo of the piece, having heard it conducted by the composer. Ravel frequently complained about a too fast tempo. Flanner was, by the way, if you know her work, very intelligent, very observant, very perceptive, an admirer of Ravel, and she had one great advantage over you or me: she was there.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Looking at this from a different angle, this thread was originally posted as a “Summer BaL”.

But can you imagine the idea of having a real BaL programme of this work. Think of the RSI the reviewer’s brain would have endure. Then there would be the issue of listeners being subjected to incessant repetition of the same music for 50 minutes.

No. This composition works on performance, but a review would be very difficult to bring off.

[Bryn]

Looking at this from a different angle, this thread was originally posted as a “Summer BaL”.

But can you imagine the idea of having a real BaL programme of this work. Think of the RSI the reviewer’s brain would have endure. Then there would be the issue of listeners being subjected to incessant repetition of the same music for 50 minutes.

No. This composition works on performance, but a review would be very difficult to bring off.

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature/ravel-bol%C3%A9ro-which-recording-should-you-buy

[Barbirollians]

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature...should-you-buy

Bafflingly no Dutoit in that survey

[Pulcinella]

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/feature...should-you-buy

Thanks for the link, Bryn.

Bafflingly no Dutoit in that survey

Or the later Boulez (which I haven't got round to listening to yet!).

[burning dog]

I quite like Marmite

[pastoralguy]

Listening now to Boulez and the NYPO.
It's the last item (track number 12) on the last of three CDs in a set I have kept as not all items made it into the 'complete' Boulez Sony box.
I was surprised to see that the CD player registered 29 tracks on the CD: the 'repetitions' (there must be a better word: iterations?) are individually indexed!
The big box version (there too Bolero is the last item on the CD (CD28); track number 10) has only one index point.

I fail to see how anyone can resist getting caught up in the magnificent swirl of this piece!

PS: Mistake corrected: starts at track 12 not 10, so 18 sections, as Alpie pointed out.
Mea culpa.

Listening to the Boulez 'Bolero' with the New York Philharmonic just now. Terrific that Boulez treats it with tremendous respect and not simply as a 'pot boiler'. I'm hearing lots of details in the harmony I've not noticed before.

What a treasure trove this box is!

[jayne lee wilson]

<< Since so much has lately been said, principally by Ravel, as to the correct tempo for his too-famous Boléro, considerable interest attended his directing of that piece as a final act of a long evening. May we state that those who thought a bolero was a short, bright jacket worn for fancy dress had better make other plans? According to Ravel, a bolero is apparently a long, black crepe cape with a train the full length of a hall carpet, worn exclusively when walking to funerals.>>

Janet Flanner, 1932, 'Letter from Paris' The New Yorker.

Fascinating, Alain.... I wonder if Ravel was thinking of the Poncho...? (**)
poncho spanish funeral cape
Perhaps an older meaning of "Bolero" disappeared, or the terminology/vocab could easily change meanings over time....

The few ponchos I have are all black or black-based.... and long enough to use as shawls, thrown over shoulders in winter... (and this summer )
They make me feel a bit glam and raise the spirits beneath gloomy skies.
I don't think I have a bolero as currently understood...

(**).. . or was it a Brahms-2nd-Symphony style deception.....

[Mal]

Bafflingly no Dutoit in that survey

Maybe they'd heard the rumours:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dutoit#Allegations_of_sexual_assault

[Pulcinella]

Maybe they'd heard the rumours:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charle...sexual_assault

In 2014?
The article is dated 3 June 2014.

[Master Jacques]

I found no pejorative element or snobbishness in that item. Unless my command of English is at fault, and that is quite possible, she was correcting, wittily, a then common misapprehension about the correct tempo of the piece, having heard it conducted by the composer. Ravel frequently complained about a too fast tempo. Flanner was, by the way, if you know her work, very intelligent, very observant, very perceptive, an admirer of Ravel, and she had one great advantage over you or me: she was there.

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with your command of English, Alain: it's hers that's the problem. Here's a brief exegesis of her smart little paragraph:

* Since so much has lately been said, principally by Ravel, as to the correct tempo for his too-famous Boléro
"People are talking it up too much, especially its attention-seeking composer, and it doesn't deserve its fame"

* a final act of a long evening
"I was already bored to death by all that dull, classical stuff"

* May we state that those who thought a bolero was a short, bright jacket worn for fancy dress had better make other plans?
(Use of the superior, Royal "we", looking down on the general mob). (Reduces the music to the level of frivolous fashion)

* a bolero is apparently a long, black crepe cape with a train the full length of a hall carpet, worn exclusively when walking to funerals.
"It's dull, slow, amazingly long-winded and funereal"

I think the writer is the kind of air-headed "American in Paris" immortalised by George Gershwin in his (notably overlong) orchestral piece.

The prosecution rests.

(And I wish we had been there, Alain - I think we'd have got a lot more out of the event than she did!)

[Master Jacques]

Listening to the Boulez 'Bolero' with the New York Philharmonic just now. Terrific that Boulez treats it with tremendous respect and not simply as a 'pot boiler'. I'm hearing lots of details in the harmony I've not noticed before.

What a treasure trove this box is!

Agreed!

[HighlandDougie]

I'm sure there is nothing wrong with your command of English, Alain: it's hers that's the problem. Here's a brief exegesis of her smart little paragraph:

* Since so much has lately been said, principally by Ravel, as to the correct tempo for his too-famous Boléro
"People are talking it up too much, especially its attention-seeking composer, and it doesn't deserve its fame"

* a final act of a long evening
"I was already bored to death by all that dull, classical stuff"

* May we state that those who thought a bolero was a short, bright jacket worn for fancy dress had better make other plans?
(Use of the superior, Royal "we", looking down on the general mob). (Reduces the music to the level of frivolous fashion)

* a bolero is apparently a long, black crepe cape with a train the full length of a hall carpet, worn exclusively when walking to funerals.
"It's dull, slow, amazingly long-winded and funereal"

I think the writer is the kind of air-headed "American in Paris" immortalised by George Gershwin in his (notably overlong) orchestral piece.

The prosecution rests.

(And I wish we had been there, Alain - I think we'd have got a lot more out of the event than she did!)

Ah, Master J, I think that, "air-headed", does Genêt an injustice (OK, so she was American but that fact doesn't mean to say that she was insensitive to what was happening around her in Paris) . Ever so slightly disappointed that you might want to dismiss her in this way (try https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...ardianreview33).

[FFRR]

Welcome to the forum, FFRR. (Shouldn’t it be FFSS in the modern era?)

Thanks for the welcomes, everyone!

I did indeed consider FFSS as a 'handle', but was concerned about the possible confusion with a similar exclamatory acronym!

Has anyone mentioned Ansermet yet? It was part of his famous LP with La Valse and Honegger's Pacific 231

[Alain Maréchal]

(Use of the superior, Royal "we", looking down on the general mob). (Reduces the music to the level of frivolous fashion)
[I]

I think the "we" is not royal (an adjective surely needs no majuscule), but I understand it is house style in TNY for "I". (I am happy to be corrected about that: TNY is the only transatlantic publication I read). It would be the equivalent of "on dit que" in Le Figaro.

As for your exegesis (I give grateful thanks to St. Collins-Robert), not being a cynic, I prefer to accept what is written, not what I think has or should have been written. The complete review suggests she did in fact get a lot out of the concert - which included both piano concertos.

As my contribution to the recorded examples: Leibowitz is (surprisingly for so pedagogical a chef) fun, he allows the soloists great latitude, also longitude. Memory of Lamoureux concerts in the 60s tells me Dervaux did similar. As for Ansermet: as in many works, it took a rigid mathematician to permit such rubato and flair.

By the way Jayne, Mme M. possesses a bolero jacket, which appears, usually at concerts, so often I wonder if our acquaintances think it is the only smart outfit she has.