Ravel's Bolero

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  • Master Jacques
    Full Member
    • Feb 2012
    • 1927

    Ravel's Bolero

    To my amusement, but not surprise, I don't think the official BaL has ever had a go at this, at least not since 1999. All I can find is a 20-minute talk by Stephen Johnson, posing the question as to whether or not Bolero proved the composer was succumbing to dementia.

    Yet given its stellar popularity and the massive number of recordings, many of them played by virtuoso orchestras in demonstration sound, a BaL ought to be done. We learn more about orchestration - and harmonisation - by listening to Bolero carefully, than we do in perhaps any other piece in the repertoire.

    I'll start the ball rolling with one classic, and one "long shot".

    * The classic I'd choose is Monteux with the LSO (on Philips CD reissue 464 733-2), recorded in Wembley Town Hall in 1964. The tempo is perfect, the build imperious, the recording Rolls-Royce in its smoothness and detail - and that frankly orgiastic moment when the key change comes at the climax still has me jumping out of my seat.

    * My long shot is Libor Pešek and the Czech Philharmonic (in Supraphon's 'Libor Pešek Gold' 4-CD collection), recorded in Prague's Rudolfinum in 1985, which I bought for the Suk content really. I love the vivid colours in which the highly individual woodwind and brass sections clothe their "moments" - not least the braying, elephantine trombones at the end - and the almost religious sense of a procession that the conductor engenders. It is thrilling, moving listening.

    As are so many Boleros, yes?
  • Bryn
    Banned
    • Mar 2007
    • 24688

    #2
    A clear favourite, for me (the CD was recommended by erstwhile contributor, 'wilf').



    Otherwise, Ravel's own recording.

    Comment

    • cloughie
      Full Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 22180

      #3
      Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
      To my amusement, but not surprise, I don't think the official BaL has ever had a go at this, at least not since 1999. All I can find is a 20-minute talk by Stephen Johnson, posing the question as to whether or not Bolero proved the composer was succumbing to dementia.

      Yet given its stellar popularity and the massive number of recordings, many of them played by virtuoso orchestras in demonstration sound, a BaL ought to be done. We learn more about orchestration - and harmonisation - by listening to Bolero carefully, than we do in perhaps any other piece in the repertoire.

      I'll start the ball rolling with one classic, and one "long shot".

      * The classic I'd choose is Monteux with the LSO (on Philips CD reissue 464 733-2), recorded in Wembley Town Hall in 1964. The tempo is perfect, the build imperious, the recording Rolls-Royce in its smoothness and detail - and that frankly orgiastic moment when the key change comes at the climax still has me jumping out of my seat.

      * My long shot is Libor Pešek and the Czech Philharmonic (in Supraphon's 'Libor Pešek Gold' 4-CD collection), recorded in Prague's Rudolfinum in 1985, which I bought for the Suk content really. I love the vivid colours in which the highly individual woodwind and brass sections clothe their "moments" - not least the braying, elephantine trombones at the end - and the almost religious sense of a procession that the conductor engenders. It is thrilling, moving listening.

      As are so many Boleros, yes?
      Is there a piano version available with Ravel playing, maybe it was done for a piano roll?

      Comment

      • Master Jacques
        Full Member
        • Feb 2012
        • 1927

        #4
        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
        Well ... he was on hand to advise Albert Wolff (who'd prepared it with the idea that Ravel would conduct) how he wanted it done. Although Ravel's name of course appeared on the record, all evidence suggests that the actual takes were conducted by Wolff. Not the first or the last time that a "composer recording" has been, well ... an alternate truth. One thinks of Tippett's Nimbus recordings, for a start.

        Comment

        • Master Jacques
          Full Member
          • Feb 2012
          • 1927

          #5
          Originally posted by cloughie View Post
          Is there a piano version available with Ravel playing, maybe it was done for a piano roll?
          Not to my knowledge, but I'm no piano expert!

          Comment

          • Bryn
            Banned
            • Mar 2007
            • 24688

            #6
            Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
            Well ... he was on hand to advise Albert Wolff (who'd prepared it with the idea that Ravel would conduct) how he wanted it done. Although Ravel's name of course appeared on the record, all evidence suggests that the actual takes were conducted by Wolff. Not the first or the last time that a "composer recording" has been, well ... an alternate truth. One thinks of Tippett's Nimbus recordings, for a start.
            An alternative alternative is provided by lemoustachu1 in the Youtube comments:

            "Enregistre le samedi 11 Janvier 1930, au saxophone soprano M.Mule au saxophone tenor M.Priam, sous la direction de M. Ravel, mais l'orchestre avait été préparé par A.Wolf."

            Comment

            • LeMartinPecheur
              Full Member
              • Apr 2007
              • 4717

              #7
              Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
              Well ... he was on hand to advise Albert Wolff (who'd prepared it with the idea that Ravel would conduct) how he wanted it done. Although Ravel's name of course appeared on the record, all evidence suggests that the actual takes were conducted by Wolff. Not the first or the last time that a "composer recording" has been, well ... an alternate truth. One thinks of Tippett's Nimbus recordings, for a start.
              Explain please!
              I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

              Comment

              • Stanfordian
                Full Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 9322

                #8
                Celibidache conducting the excellent Munich Philharmonic on DVD/Blu-Ray is worth seeing and hearing.

                Filmed in May 1994 at Cologne concerts.
                Last edited by Stanfordian; 22-06-19, 13:22.

                Comment

                • Pulcinella
                  Host
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 11062

                  #9
                  Originally posted by LeMartinPecheur View Post
                  Explain please!
                  Snap......maybe all is revealed in the Soden biography?
                  Was there a 'Stravinsky/Craft in the background-type' collaboration going on?

                  Comment

                  • Master Jacques
                    Full Member
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 1927

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                    Snap......maybe all is revealed in the Soden biography?
                    Was there a 'Stravinsky/Craft in the background-type' collaboration going on?
                    Not quite. There was John Pryce-Jones first thoroughly rehearsing the orchestra, and then standing behind Tippett during the recording sessions giving them the clear beat which the composer himself simply couldn't supply. Tippett got quite grumpy about it at first, as all this was arranged without his buy-in, but it was a necessity to make the recordings technically viable and ultimately he was gracious enough to accept this rather curious working arrangement.

                    Comment

                    • Eine Alpensinfonie
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 20572

                      #11
                      This is a bit early. Summer BaL was designed for discussion during the Proms season when BaL has a summer break. That's 3 weeks away!

                      Comment

                      • visualnickmos
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 3614

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                        This is a bit early. Summer BaL was designed for discussion during the Proms season when BaL has a summer break. That's 3 weeks away!
                        Hey - let's be optimistic - while the sunshine lasts!

                        Comment

                        • LeMartinPecheur
                          Full Member
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 4717

                          #13
                          Originally posted by visualnickmos View Post
                          Hey - let's be optimistic - while the sunshine lasts!
                          Nah, lock this thread till the high holy day, TherFirstNightOfTherProms. (Or should that be The Seasonal Extinction of the Official BaL? )

                          Traditions must be preserved, particularly in this new great Time of Renewed National Identity
                          I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

                          Comment

                          • Barbirollians
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 11751

                            #14
                            The great thing about Summer BAL is that we do not have Andrew McGregor interrupting us and telling us what to think .

                            Comment

                            • Pulcinella
                              Host
                              • Feb 2014
                              • 11062

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
                              This is a bit early. Summer BaL was designed for discussion during the Proms season when BaL has a summer break. That's 3 weeks away!
                              Originally posted by LeMartinPecheur View Post
                              Nah, lock this thread till the high holy day, TherFirstNightOfTherProms. (Or should that be The Seasonal Extinction of the Official BaL? )

                              Traditions must be preserved, particularly in this new great Time of Renewed National Identity
                              This is partly why I launched the 'Recordings in Discussion' subforum!
                              Perhaps with Master Jacques' consent (and an obliging host) this thread could be moved there, with the necessary tweaks to the heading (and possibly the first sentence of the original post)?

                              Comment

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