Schoenberg String Quartet No 3

[teamsaint]

I thought this would be a good one to discuss.

I only know a couple of recordings, the LaSalle and the Diotima, so interested to hear thoughts on the work and available recordings.

List below compiled by a fellow forumite, who will doubtless appear shortly to claim the deserved credit .



Asasello-Quartett (Genuin)
Buchberger Quartet (* CPO)
Juilliard String Quartet (* Soundmark records) (* West Hill Radio
Archive)
Kolisch Quartet (Music & Arts) (* Archipon)
LaSalle Quartet (DG)
Leipziger Streichquartett (MDG)
New Vienna String Quartet (Philips/Presto)
Prazak Quartet (Praga)
Quatuor Diotima (* Naive)
Fred Sherry String Quartet (Naxos)
Schoenberg Quartet (Chandos)

I think the thing I particularly enjoyed on coming back to this work recently was its extraordinary capacity to surprise , and take us to unexpected places.

Oh, and links to any good reading on the work that people know of would be good as well.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Don't forget the Arons:

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=85991

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

For anyone who doesn't know this work:

[pastoralguy]

I'm sure I have an old episode of 'Discovering Music' on Mini-Disc where Stephen Johnson discusses this very opus. I must try to find it.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I remember SJ discussing the Second Quartet, pasto, but I don't think he ever did the Third.

It's a tremendous work, showing the composer at his very best - one of the trilogy of works (with the Orchestral Variations Op30 and the Piano pieces Op33) that reveal him revelling in what his new methods offer him as a composer. Lots of dualities in the piece - which can be heard in the very opening pages: a pair of contrasting duos - an energetic and exuberant motto perpetuo ostinato shared between second violin and viola upon which a canonic melody between first violin and 'cello is imposed. The two types of material never gel - the drama of the movement arises from the ostinato wishing to push the music forward, whilst the lyrical melody tugs back, contradicting the sense of downbeat (which the ostinato emphasises). Schönberg doesn't keep it obviously within the Violin 1/'cello vs Violin 2/Viola duality, and they swap material: it's the contrasting material, not voices that's important here. The constant push forward/pull back struggle affects both themes - the ostinato pushes the melody onto the beat; the melody drags the tempo of the ostinato around, and this jostling creates constant rallentandos and restarts. The two themes are torn apart, and fragments from each get stuck together - only to wrench themselves apart again (like Laurel and Hardy getting their hats muddled up). Fragments of thematic material also appear, get torn asunder, and then reassert or reinvent themselves.

The Second Movement presents further dualities - this time in sequence, rather than superimposed. It's a beautiful movement - a set of double variations; the first theme an aching, interior melody, the second an outgoing, jaunty theme reminiscent of the Cabaret Music that Schönberg had known (and written) earlier in his career. The two themes are subject each to three varied statements, each time the "internal" material getting ever more isolated, left behind, whilst the jaunty Music gets more desperate to enjoy itself. Like the first Movement, there is no reconciliation - the two Musics move further apart.

The third Movement is one of Schönberg's jaunty Scherzos - cheeky and sarcastic. The Finale starts off trying to continue the "couldn't care less" tone of the Third, but there is something a little "forced" about the cheerfulness here, and the "divisive" aspects of the first two movements return to soil the mood, causing the Music to disintegrate into four separate ostinati (each based on one of the main themes - but none of them the lyrical ones - from the four movements) that wind down to a close like a clockwork toy. No recociliation, no triumphant bringing together of the main themes, just hints of further possibilities - ever new ideas to be thrown up by the Musical processes, to be further investigated in other works.

Terrific stuff!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Don't forget the Arons:
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/...album_id=85991

Oh, crumbs! Nor the Ardittis!!!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schoenberg-Quartets-Arditti-String-Quartet/dp/B000025R4W

[teamsaint]

Ferney, thanks so much for that superb post, just the sort of writing that sends me back to the music and score to keep discovering, and enjoying.

Such an exciting work, with all the virtues that you describe.
Next up, that youtube video with the score.

[Pulcinella]

I confess!
'Twas I wot did it for teamsaint!
The list was drawn from those currently listed as available on the Presto site; the Aron and Arditti versions are both nla (but of course should feature in 'Recordings in Discussion').

And ts also sent me this link to an LAPO article, which is worth mentioning:

https://www.laphil.com/musicdb/pieces/3713/string-quartet-no-3

I have the LaSalle recording (and suspect that the accompanying notes in the booklet are worth reading) and am looking forward to getting to know this work better.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have the LaSalle recording (and suspect that the accompanying notes in the booklet are worth reading) and am looking forward to getting to know this work better.

If you have the DG release of the La Salles in this box:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schoenberg-Berg-Webern-Streichquartette-2005-03-21/dp/B01A7UD2SO

... you've got one of the best booklets [and it really is a "booklet"] that's ever accompanied any CD/LP.

If you have the BRILLIANT Classics boxed set of the same recordings, the booklet is negligible. (I don't know what comes with the DG re-issue: it's in a series where they skimped down on accompanying material, so ... )

[Pulcinella]

If you have the DG release of the La Salles in this box:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schoenberg-Berg-Webern-Streichquartette-2005-03-21/dp/B01A7UD2SO

... you've got one of the best booklets [and it really is a "booklet"] that's ever accompanied any CD/LP.

If you have the BRILLIANT Classics boxed set of the same recordings, the booklet is negligible. (I don't know what comes with the DG re-issue: it's in a series where they skimped down on accompanying material, so ... )

It's the DG box, and the CD is spinning as I type.

[jayne lee wilson]

Not heard for a bit, but my clear favourite for Schoenberg was always the Leipzig String Quartet on MDG, also enjoy the 1950-52 Juilliards (UA - which have shiny black lacquer AND reflective layers...! - collectors item... other releases too IIRC..... historical value obvious....) and the New Vienna Quartet on a Philips Duo...

But the Leipzigers win for sheer beauty, realism and translucency of MDG so-natural sound, and responsiveness of their playing.
(But I tend to think that of whatever they play, (especially the Schumann and Mendelssohn.....I don't pretend to objectivity when the Leipzigers are flowing from the speakers... )

[Tony Halstead]

I remember SJ discussing the Second Quartet, pasto, but I don't think he ever did the Third.

It's a tremendous work, showing the composer at his very best - one of the trilogy of works (with the Orchestral Variations Op30 and the Piano pieces Op33) that reveal him revelling in what his new methods offer him as a composer. Lots of dualities in the piece - which can be heard in the very opening pages: a pair of contrasting duos - an energetic and exuberant motto perpetuo ostinato shared between second violin and viola upon which a canonic melody between first violin and 'cello is imposed. The two types of material never gel - the drama of the movement arises from the ostinato wishing to push the music forward, whilst the lyrical melody tugs back, contradicting the sense of downbeat (which the ostinato emphasises). Schönberg doesn't keep it obviously within the Violin 1/'cello vs Violin 2/Viola duality, and they swap material: it's the contrasting material, not voices that's important here. The constant push forward/pull back struggle affects both themes - the ostinato pushes the melody onto the beat; the melody drags the tempo of the ostinato around, and this jostling creates constant rallentandos and restarts. The two themes are torn apart, and fragments from each get stuck together - only to wrench themselves apart again (like Laurel and Hardy getting their hats muddled up). Fragments of thematic material also appear, get torn asunder, and then reassert or reinvent themselves.

The Second Movement presents further dualities - this time in sequence, rather than superimposed. It's a beautiful movement - a set of double variations; the first theme an aching, interior melody, the second an outgoing, jaunty theme reminiscent of the Cabaret Music that Schönberg had known (and written) earlier in his career. The two themes are subject each to three varied statements, each time the "internal" material getting ever more isolated, left behind, whilst the jaunty Music gets more desperate to enjoy itself. Like the first Movement, there is no reconciliation - the two Musics move further apart.

The third Movement is one of Schönberg's jaunty Scherzos - cheeky and sarcastic. The Finale starts off trying to continue the "couldn't care less" tone of the Third, but there is something a little "forced" about the cheerfulness here, and the "divisive" aspects of the first two movements return to soil the mood, causing the Music to disintegrate into four separate ostinati (each based on one of the main themes - but none of them the lyrical ones - from the four movements) that wind down to a close like a clockwork toy. No recociliation, no triumphant bringing together of the main themes, just hints of further possibilities - ever new ideas to be thrown up by the Musical processes, to be further investigated in other works.

Terrific stuff!

[verismissimo]

Such an interesting and engaging work. Thanks for flagging, teamsaint.

Listening with great pleasure to the Lasalles from 1970. Will get out the Juilliards from nearly two decades earlier next …