Schubert, Piano Trio in Eb, D929

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My father owned a set of the 1920s famous 78s: Thibaud, Cortot and Casals.

I have that recording, ed - and a marvellous performance it is, too of the Bb Trio, D898/Op99.

[kea]

I will second the recommendation for La Gaia Scienza but also want to put in a good word for Staier/Sepec/Dieltiens, and the Atlantis Trio (with the original longer version of the finale—although the string players leave something to be desired). The long version of the finale (an additional ~150 bars plus repeat of the first half) will likely only appeal to hardcore Schubertians of the "heavenly lengths" persuasion but has also been played by some modern instrument groups incl the Florestan Trio (as an add-on), Oliver Schnyder Trio, Trio Jean Paul (22 minutes!), Thomas Irnberger/David Geringas/Michael Korstick, Trio di Parma, among others.

Worth noting that some recordings restore the 150 bar cut but not the exposition repeat and thus are "only" around 14-15 minutes.

edit: forgot two other high quality recordings—Laszlo Paulik/Sergei Istomin/Viviana Sofronitsky (mostly for Sofronitsky's piano playing which is stunning) and the Mozartean Players

[Barbirollians]

I have that recording, ed - and a marvellous performance it is, too of the Bb Trio, D898/Op99.

It and the Archduke are marvellous . I was hoping from edashtav’s review they might have recorded the E Flat too.

[verismissimo]

… I remain utterly smitten by the Serkin and Busch from the1930s.

Oh yes to Serkin and the Busches! Tremendous playing and a fine recording (1935).

While the B flat trio D898 was recorded in 1926 by Cortot, Thibaud and Casals - a truly legendary recording - I think that Cortot/Busches was the first time for the E flat D929.

[MickyD]

Just trying this on Qobuz.... that is exactly how it sounds. As if the tonmeister tries their best to squeeze a little space out of a confining place...(or maybe the other way around ).
You note the resonance quickly (most obvious on piano) - but especially at climaxes, it seems to stop too quickly.... no, it isn't desperately unpleasant (the balance & clarity is generally OK) but could seem a bit "shouty" on some systems... (subjectively, hard to maintain much interest in the readings though, for the reasons aforesummarised....)

Possible Alternatives.....
Boxy, bathroomy....

As I've been finding in the Eterna Brugge/Immerseel Mozart Concerti, Immerseel has many musical merits as conductor (I love his Debussy and the Strauss Waltzes) but, whilst enjoyable as part of the bigger picture, is perhaps not the most distinctive or imaginative of pianists....

BTW - La Gaia Scienza are well-represented on Qobuz, so the Schubert is all there, awaiting your inspection....

OK, thank you...must give it a listen myself. I'm probably one of the few who enjoys the cavernous sound of those early Nimbus recordings of The Hanover Band. Their recording of 'Anacréon' by Cherubini sounds glorious to my ears!

[kea]

Time-wise, the movements are

'60s: 12' 42"; 8' 57"; 6' 54"; 12' 45"
'80s: 12' 41"; 9' 41"; 6' 44"; 14' 19"

Edgey mentions the original version of the finale, which adds around five or six minutes of Music to the more familiar version (depending on the speed taken, of course). Both the Trio Italiano and the Golub/Kaplan/Carr Trio include both versions of the Finale on their recordings - and the Trio Alba, like the Kungsbackas, replace the familiar version with the original - as, I suspect, do the Rafael, Vitruvi, and Vienna Mozart Trios, judging by the durations on their recordings. (The Rafael Trio has the longest performance I can find: 17'22"; 9' 21"; 7' 10"; 22' 54": that's over ten minutes longer than the Beaux Arts in the '60s just for the Finale! - I think the shortest on record is the Serkin/Busch [10' 52"; 10' 07"; 4' 40"; 13' 01" - but I think that is more to do with 78 rpm accommodation of repeats. And one of the longest performances of the Slow Movements on record.)

Clock timings aren't everything - performances can create their own correct tempi. Even so - that Rafael recording (I haven't heard it, so this is very possibly a grotesque disservice to them) at 57 minutes seems a bit ... "leisurely" !

I spent some time looking thru the available recordings on streaming services as this is a piece I have no problem listening to repeatedly for hours.

Jörg-Ewald Dähler, Hansheinz Schneeberger & Thomas Demenga have a recording on ECM that is almost as slow: 18'04" / 9'03" / 7'13" / 16'57" [=21'30" without repeat] but which produces magical effects from the timbres of the instruments. (Period instruments.)

On the other end of things, the Trio Opus 100 comes in at 15'18" / 9'10" / 6'43" / 18'53", on modern instruments and presumably named for this work (or maybe they're big fans of Philipp Scharwenka or Henry Charles Litolff?). The finale is quite virtuosic here and doesn't quite have the relaxed quality of "Allegro moderato".

(Due to all the repeats or lack thereof, timings don't give a great picture of the actual tempi—that said La Gaia Scienza is similar at 15'22" / 8'44" / 6'58" / 13'47" [=approx. 19'20" if they played the longer finale] and the Serkin/Busches are definitely even faster, 10'52" = 14'04" / 10'07" / 4'40" = 6'45" / 13'01 = approx. 18'35")

Almost all recordings of the slow movement fall in a range from about 9' to 10' plus or minus 10 seconds. And then, stretching the definition of Andante con moto pretty significantly, you have Grigory Feigin/Valentin Feigin/Igor Zhukov, whose timings are 15'10" / 13'34" / 6'30" / 13'21" [=approx. 19'00"]. In general it's true across the board that ensembles taking faster tempi in the outer movements take the slow movement slower, as it creates a need for greater relaxation, but this is an outlier even within that trend. I'm not sure that it actually works, but maybe if you're a fan of Sviatoslav Richter and wish he had recorded the trio....

(Irnberger/Geringas/Korstick also have a fairly slow Andante at 10'38" and a fairly slow finale at 20'43" but are generally closer to mainstream.)

The Trio Jean Paul's slow finale (16'53" / 9'25" / 7'04" / 22'09" [= 17'35" without repeat; ca. 14'20" as published) is actually pretty close to average tempo-wise (as judged from the exposition) and its "slowness" is a combination of frequent expressive hesitations—effective at demolishing an ostensibly happy mood, but can create a sense of emotional overloading—and a palpable slowing down for the 150 missing bars which acts to bring back not only the theme but also the tempo from the 2nd movement. They do the same thing in the coda for the return of the theme, giving the major key conclusion a minimal acceleration and significant sense of majesty. I actually thought it was pretty effective & may consider this as a go-to modern instruments recording.

Another potentially recommendable & recent recording is Antje Weithaas/Marie-Elisabeth Hecker/Martin Helmchen (16'12" / 9'51" / 6'54" / 16'03 [=20'15"]), moderate in tempi but not in affect or dynamics. Moderate tempi are probably correct, but can make it hard to hear Schubert's radicalism in this work and others, hence probably why I've preferred eg La Gaia Scienza or the Mozartean Players (15'28" / 8'29" / 6'40" / 15'17" [=19'24"]) but get along equally well with the Jean Paul.

The Trio Rafale is certainly on the leisurely side but I don't think too much so—the last movement would be 17'06" without the repeat, or about 14'30" in the standard published version. This is not far off from the second BAT recording, or the Amadeus Trio, or the Haydn-Trio Eisenstadt, or the Christine Busch/France Springuel/Jan Vermeulen, or the Paulik/Istomin/Sofronitsky—all of which are certainly on the leisurely end of normal but not particularly outside the norm.

[edashtav]

I have that recording, ed - and a marvellous performance it is, too of the Bb Trio, D898/Op99.

Whoops... memories of 60 years ago and an ancient score published by Donajowski employing the infamousSchubert opus numbers led this old fella up a garden path and into, now what was that musical based on Schubert? Was it "Lilac Time"?

Now deleted... thanks for the small print, ferney!

[Mal]

My only recordingsi are the Beaux Arts...

With Guilet or Cohen? I have the one with Guilet and I don't play it very often... listening to it now I think it's Guilet's thin violin tone which is the main problem, plus, as "Third ear" says, it lacks drama. You can really hear both these faults in the second movement - Guilet asleep and scratchy... even Pressler's lively and intelligent playing, and Greenhouse's beautiful cello, can't save it. I need a replacement!

[cloughie]

With Guilet or Cohen? I have the one with Guilet and I don't play it very often... listening to it now I think it's Guilet's thin violin tone which is the main problem, plus, as "Third ear" says, it lacks drama. You can really hear both these faults in the second movement - Guilet asleep and scratchy... even Pressler's lively and intelligent playing, and Greenhouse's beautiful cello, can't save it. I need a replacement!

I have the Guillet on a Philips Twofer - excellent!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Kea - many thanks for #21; a terrific post, and with exactly the sort of information and involvement that I love to read. You've aroused my particular interest in hearing the Jean-Paul's recording

Moderate tempi are probably correct, but can make it hard to hear Schubert's radicalism in this work

- there can be a kind of radicalism in an "extreme moderation" (to give a more accurate use of an expression that Daily Mail-types used to like to describe themselves in the late '70s) - but the timings for the Rafale led me to imagine what the Music might sound like at a tempo that would result in such a timing. Which, of course, is not only completely unfair, but very probably as accurate a representation of how their performance actually goes as was my misspelling of the ensemble's name!

Brilliant post - thanks again.

[Mal]

I have the Guillet on a Philips Twofer - excellent!

Oh well it's all subjective :). I found BA with Cohen on youtube and wasn't convinced. Much more convincing was Trio Wanderer:

A better recording, and ticked the "warm, full and dynamic" boxes for me. Can't ask more really. Had to listen to the whole performance! Rave reviews on YouTube: "Such fantastic dynamics, timing, tone, expression, souls which stand above the music,who know what it's all about. Simply great and inspiring to listen and absorb, medicin for the Soul." The only negative was the coughers.

[richardfinegold]

I have the Guillet on a Philips Twofer - excellent!

That’s probably the one that I have. It’s on my NAS and the original CD discarded

[Mal]

Here's La Gaia Scienza

Interesting, but I find Trio Wanderer have more warmth and fullness, I'm still not HIP :)

[Barbirollians]

Whoops... memories of 60 years ago and an ancient score published by Donajowski employing the infamousSchubert opus numbers led this old fella up a garden path and into, now what was that musical based on Schubert? Was it "Lilac Time"?

Now deleted... thanks for the small print, ferney!

Shame it was deleted I agreed with every word .

Perhaps this thread could be widened to include both Schubert piano trios ?

[vinteuil]

The Trio Rafale is certainly on the leisurely side but I don't think too much so—the last movement would be 17'06" without the repeat, or about 14'30" in the standard published version. This is not far off from the second BAT recording, or the Amadeus Trio, or the Haydn-Trio Eisenstadt, or the Christine Busch/France Springuel/Jan Vermeulen, or the Paulik/Istomin/Sofronitsky—all of which are certainly on the leisurely end of normal but not particularly outside the norm.

... there is another Vermeulen recording - Peter Despiegelaere/Karel Steylaerts/Jan Vermeulen :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00000225Z

I don't have it [ ... yet ] - does anyone else know it?



.