Our Summer BAL 9: Haydn Symphony in G No 92

[Tony Halstead]

(Haydn) Symphonies 21-41 are all covered ( I think) in the AAM/ Hogwood ( whose 70th birthday it is today ) cycle but I'm not sure whether it is still available from Decca.

[antongould]

René Jacobs / Freiburg Barockorchester

Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century

Sigiswald Kuijken / la Petite Bande

Being in the Olympic spirit would you like to give us Gold, Silver and Bronze vints.

To summarise the thread are we saying Szell, Bohm or Kuijken ..... perhaps someone has come roaring through on the rails ... ???

[MickyD]

I've just listened again to Jacobs and Kuijken. I find both very pleasing, but there are real frissons with the Jacobs, and I think it is given a better recording, too. The fortepiano continuo is delightful to my ears.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I had thought that I had both the Davis and Bernstein recordings - but it looks as if they got lost in one-or-other housemove, so the only versions I have are those by Kuijken and Fischer on CD, and Marriner and Böhm on cassette. Not having my cassette player linked up to any system, I played both CD versions - the Adam Fischer is a good, very worthy and pleasing performance, marred only by a sluggish Minuet - but some particularly lovely playing in the Second Movement to compensate. It might have sounded even better had I not played it so soon after hearing the Kuijken - my word, that is so good! It's a wonderfully naughty reading that I find absolutely irresistible, with really tangy instrumental timbres (my only disappointment being the rather "soft stick" sound of the Timps: the crisper sound of wood would have matched the sinewy strings and winds better, I think). A performance that had me revelling in each moment, chuckling at so many points, and one that is fully responsive to the work's vast variety of moods - always with a twinkle in the eye, even in the lyricism of the second movement. And the Minuet is absolutely superb - incisefully in tempo and thus revealing the "where the hell's the downbeat???!!!" aspect of Haydn's rhythmic invention. (Fischer - in addition to slower speed and a rather plodding presentation - pulls the tempo back at every third beat of the bar, thus robbing the Music of this mischief, "ensafening" it like an over-zealous Health and Safety officer in charge of a children's play area - Kuijken allows a few scuffed knees: "encourages" them, even - the image of anyone trying to dance to the rhythms here is hilarious!)

I don't know the Jacobs, but I'm a great admirer of his, and shall seek out his (and Bruggen's) recordings. But, so far, Kuijken gets any gold medals I'm asked to hand out

[jayne lee wilson]

David Threasher, in a excellent 9/2012 Gramophone Collection survey, went for -
"Modern Choice" - Heidelberg/Fey.
"Historic Choice" - Paris Conservatoire/Walter.

(and... wait for it...)

"Alternative Choice" - Munich PO/Celibidache.

But finally he went with Jacobs as his top choice, it seemed by a very short head from Fey.
I don't think I had a favourite when I listened to late Haydn more, but I'd love to hear what Dantone might make of it, should he ever get-around...

[antongould]

Thanks very much MickyD, ferney and Jayne .... annoyingly it seems Apple Music doesn't do the Kuijken but I have the Jacobs and I am very impressed. I think ferney might have it too, it's in the wonderful Lumieres box ......

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have the Jacobs and I am very impressed. I think ferney might have it too, it's in the wonderful Lumieres box ......

- so I do! CD11, coupled with Jacob's Jupiter - last played here on 26th June 2014; an oversight I intend to correct before too many minutes have passed!

Many thanks, anton

[MickyD]

I'm not surprised by that survey choice - I had always loved the Kuijken disc, but the Jacobs really gets the blood coursing.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I had always loved the Kuijken disc, but the Jacobs really gets the blood coursing.

Having played it, I very nearly was converted, Micky - and what a marvellous Symphony this is; and how blessed we are to have such astonishingly good performances on record - the second-half repeats in the outer Movements, the orchestral sound (a fuller sound to the strings than Kuijken's) and balance (the detail in the lower strings, and - praise be! - the sort of Timp sounds I so missed in the Kuijken), a wonderful "patter song" pace to the Finale: it is such a good performance! Just very slightly marred for me by a couple of moments of "interpretation" in the Minuet and Finale that I'd adore in a concert performance, but which I wonder how frequently I'd want to hear: and the first two movements show so clearly that Jacob's strengths are at their pinnacle when he ensures that the players produce what Haydn wrote - there's plenty of scope for invention and magic there, and he produces this in spades. I think I'll still give Kuijken the gold, after a very careful study of the photo finish.

It's not really "either/or", though, is it? Why just have one recording of this life-bejoying work? These discs cost much less than bottle of a single malt - and I wouldn't dream of limiting myself to just one of those!

[Richard Barrett]

I think I'll still give Kuijken the gold, after a very careful study of the photo finish.

Agreed. And the same goes for all his other recordings of Haydn symphonies. A complete set from him would be very welcome, though I guess not very probable.

[MickyD]

I quite agree, fhg - how lucky we are to have the luxury of different versions of these works at such little cost.

Richard, at least we do have Kuijken in all the later symphonies, including the 'Paris' and 'London' sets.

[Richard Barrett]

Richard, at least we do have Kuijken in all the later symphonies, including the 'Paris' and 'London' sets.

I don't know Kuijken's "Paris" set actually. At the risk of contradicting my previous post, I can't imagine it supplanting Harnoncourt's in my affections.

[MickyD]

The difference with the 'Paris' set is that Kuijken directs the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment instead of his own La Petite Bande. It's a very satisfactory, but I can understand your feelings for the Harnoncourt...I have that set, too and think it's superb.

[vinteuil]

I don't know Kuijken's "Paris" set actually. At the risk of contradicting my previous post, I can't imagine it supplanting Harnoncourt's in my affections.

... and if only there were a Harnoncourt of no 92!

[MickyD]

Earlier works, 'tis true, but these from Harnoncourt are well worth getting:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-6-8-Harnoncourt-Concentus-Wien/dp/B000000SCU/ref=sr_1_14?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1470302905&sr=1-14&keywords=haydn+harnoncourt